Who is Isis/Ishtar/Queen of the Night/May Queen/M?
>Baal's/Moloch/Allah's Bride
>spring Festivals/Easter
>birth of the Sun
What do you know about the archetype. Share.
my intuition: we have two streams one is Northern other Southern. North is associated with Moon. South with Sun. Nordics have Man on the Moon and Sun is a female. Ishtar mother of sun?
>Allah's Bride
Wrong.
Allaah Says (what has been translated into English from Arabic [The Noble Qur'an]) in Suratul Jinn (72); Aayaah 3-7
"'And exalted be the Majesty of our Lord, He has taken neither a wife, nor a son (or offspring or children). 'And that the foolish among us used to utter against Allah that which was wrong and not right. 'And verily, we thought that men and jinns would not utter a lie against Allah. 'And verily, there were men among mankind who took shelter with the masculine among the jinns, but they (jinns) increased them (mankind) in sin and disbelief. 'And they thought as you thought, that Allah will not send any Messenger (to mankind or jinns)."
Before you speak about something, make sure you know what you are claiming.
The Noble Qur'an; Suratus Saffat (37), Aayaah 125-126:
"Will you call upon Ba'l and forsake the Best of creators, Allah, your Lord and the Lord of your forefathers?"
Ba'l (Baal) is a false deity that the polytheists and pagans worship instead of Allaah (the Lord of all that exists, of all creation).
Isis is merely a false deity from antiquity with no power over anything.
Isis can neither help or fight against Allaah. Isis is a creation of Allaah, slave of Allaah.
Surah Yoonus (10), Aayaah 30:
>"There! Every person will know (exactly) what (all) he had earned before, and they will be brought back to Allah, their rightful Lord (Maula), and their invented false deities will vanish from them."
Suratul Qasas (28), Aayaah 75:
>And We shall take out from every nation a witness, and We shall say: "Bring your proof." Then they shall know that the truth is with Allah (Alone), and the lies (false gods) which they invented will disappear from them.
Surat Fussilat (41), Aayaah 48:
>And those whom they used to invoke before will fail them, and they will perceive that they have no place of refuge (from Allah's punishment).
Suratul 'An'am (6), Aayaah 22-
>And on the Day when We shall gather them all together, We shall say to those who joined partners in worship (with Us): "Where are your partners (false deities) whom you used to assert (as partners in worship with Allah)?" There will then be (left) no Fitnah (excuses or statements or arguments) for them but to say: "By Allah, our Lord, we were not those who joined others in worship with Allah." Look! How they lie against themselves! But the (lie) which they invented will disappear from them. And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old." And they prevent others from him (from following Prophet Muhammad) and they themselves keep away from him, and (by doing so) they destroy not but their ownselves, yet they perceive (it) not. If you could but see when they will be held over the (Hell) Fire! They will say: "Would that we were but sent back (to the world)! Then we would not deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.) of our Lord, and we would be of the believers!" Nay, it has become manifest to them what they had been concealing before. But if they were returned (to the world), they would certainly revert to that which they were forbidden. And indeed they are liars. And they said: "There is no (other life) but our (present) life of this world, and never shall we be resurrected (on the Day of Resurrection)." If you could but see when they will be held (brought and made to stand) in front of their Lord! He will say: "Is not this (Resurrection and the taking of the accounts) the truth?" They will say: "Yes, by our Lord!" He will then say: "So taste you the torment because you used not to believe." They indeed are losers who denied their Meeting with Allah, until all of a sudden, the Hour (signs of death) is on them, and they say: "Alas for us that we gave no thought to it," while they will bear their burdens on their backs; and evil indeed are the burdens that they will bear! And the life of this world is nothing but play and amusement. But far better is the house in the Hereafter for those who are Al-Muttaqun (the pious). Will you not then understand?
Suratul Fatir (35), Aayaah 13:
>He merges the night into the day (i.e. the decrease in the hours of the night are added to the hours of the day), and He merges the day into the night (i.e. the decrease in the hours of the day are added to the hours of the night). And He has subjected the sun and the moon, each runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmir (the thin membrane over the datestone).
Suratul Baqarah, Aayatul Kursi 255:
>Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi (chair/footstool) extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.
>(the Lord of all that exists, of all creation).
Don't think so, ali.
Allah is a creation of underdeveloped psyche of the desert dwellers. 'elohim'. a envious and bloodthursty builder.
all that is good came to islam through the Iranian connection.
>Isis is merely a false deity from antiquity with no power over anything.
Again I disagree. she's now collecting blood offerings in the Middle East
>Don't think so, ali.
Ali?
>Allah is a creation of underdeveloped psyche of the desert dwellers. 'elohim'. a envious and bloodthursty builder.
This is mere opinion from a nobody.
>all that is good came to islam through the Iranian connection.
Vacuous comments with absolutely no basis. Argument for arguments sake. I doubt you read anything in the post.
Allaah Says [18:54]
>"And indeed We have put forth every kind of example in this Quran, for mankind. But, man is ever more quarrelsome than anything."
In regard to Isis/ISIS/IS
>Again I disagree. she's now collecting blood offerings in the Middle East
Regardless, she/they have no power over or against Allah. False deities/deviant groups, all together wait for the Day of Regrets.
Allaah Says [9:33]
>It is He Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
I want to elaborate more on your statement
>Allah is a creation of underdeveloped psyche of the desert dwellers. 'elohim'. a envious and bloodthursty builder.
>Allah is a creation of
Where did you get this from? "Allah is a creation", are you illiterate? You must be of the "unlettered" mentioned in the Qur'an. Those who cannot comprehend or grasp the meaning of.
>underdeveloped psyche of the desert dwellers.
This sounds more like a personal perception from someone that is probably sheltered, living in the lap of luxury (which you are). Someone that probably spends most of their time on mindless dribble of psuedo-intellectualism and entertainment.
Clearly you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of anything and just guess.
Your kind is described in the Qur'an [2:78]
>And there are among them unlettered people, who know not the Book, but they trust upon false desires and they but guess.
>'elohim'.
I wonder if you even know what you are talking about or are just dropping names to appear as if you are "in the know"
Elohim is the name the Children of Israel (today, Jews) used to call Allah.
>a envious and bloodthursty builder.
I think your underdeveloped psyche cannot grasp the fact that you cannot apply human attributes or social constructs to Allah. You cannot project YOUR human condition to Allah. Technically you can, but people will just look at you like an idiot, and rightly so.
>Ishtar mother of sun?
Inanna (Sumerian, older Goddess which became known as Ishtar in Akkadia) was considered a daughter of the Moon God - Sin and Her celestial body was Venus and not Moon, nor Sun, although She was called by various names such as Queen of Heaven and Earth.
Don't really see a connection between Inanna/Ishtar and the rest.
Book with Sumerian tales about Her.
https://mega.nz/#!YpkQjDLQ!IoydHZjjBfWphByqSmUL93bjfiTv4VkyCSkcRr-aKsA
How in the fuck did this thread turn to Allah Shitposting? Is anyone stupid enough to actually believe in one overarching god?
I suppose people are stupid enough into turning their understanding of life and creation into a case of MPD (meaning that your concept of Allah/God is broken into several pieces, 2 or more) which has a severe impact on your mind (intellect).
See, you are what you believe. If you believe in Allaah, the One, the True God worthy of worship alone, without partners, or without worshipping ANYTHING created, you in turn, your mind is whole, sound, unified and collected.
But, if you deny this, and worship others with Him, take others in worship other than Him, then your mind and soul follows, and you become broken, compartmentalized and are liable to suffer something akin to MPD by splitting your belief and worship in several directions, and all of this negates Monotheism (Tawheed)
If you worship anything, I mean anything in the universe that is created, any man or object, then this, this is foolish when those things can neither benefit you nor can they harm you and will be of no use against the One Who created them first, Allaah.
The Noble Qur'aan 3:83
>Do they seek other than the religion of Allah, while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.
Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. You got the message.
Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong door, mosque is two block down.
>not realizing that Gods and Goddesses embody certain powers within the universe
>not realizing the underlying monism of worshipping many Deities
>willingly giving loosh to an extremely malevolent entity
>thinking that said entity created the universe
>being this indoctrinated
How mundane can you get, srsly?
>easter
>ishtar
She gives birth to the Sun at spring festival.
the same myth is in christianity: mary and jesus.
dies and gets ressurected on spring. jesus=sun
or am I saying utter shite
oyy veeeyyy people of the book. they know everything because THE BOOK. You got the message. I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class from mosque. Reading and citing the Book. I will shit quotation fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
The map is not the territory. A name is not the being.
You would know who she was, if she spoke to you. Obviously she doesn't favor you halfwits. Can't say I blame her, heh…
Whatever you do, do not read Inanna Returns. Earthly females should not be let near any sacred text and neither should you literal mudbloods. Distort, diminish, is that all you are good for? Then die by the blade.
>not realizing that Gods and Goddesses embody certain powers within the universe
Is this the kind of dribble you believe in? False deities. What powers do they have? Who are these so-called "gods" and "goddesses"?
>not realizing the underlying monism of worshipping many Deities
The Noble Qur'aan 39:3
>Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.
Your comment is null and void.
>willingly giving loosh to an extremely malevolent entity
The Noble Qur'aan 4:50
>Look, how they invent a lie against Allah, and enough is that as a manifest sin.
The Noble Qur'aan 5:103
>But those who disbelieve invent lies against Allah, and most of them have no understanding.
The Noble Qur'aan 6:21
>And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, revelations, etc.)? Verily, the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.) shall never be successful.
The Noble Qur'aan 17:13-14
>And We have fastened every man's deeds to his neck, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open. (It will be said to him): "Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day."
The Noble Qur'aan 17:18-19
>Whoever wishes for the quick-passing (transitory enjoyment of this world), We readily grant him what We will for whom We like. Then, afterwards, We have appointed for him Hell, he will burn therein disgraced and rejected, ( far away from Allah's Mercy). And whoever desires the Hereafter and strives for it, with the necessary effort due for it (i.e. do righteous deeds of Allah's Obedience) while he is a believer (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism), then such are the ones whose striving shall be appreciated, thanked and rewarded (by Allah).
>thinking that said entity created the universe
The Noble Qur'aan 2:21
>O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allah), Who created you and those who were before you so that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious)
The Noble Qur'aan 2:29
>He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything.
The Noble Qur'aan 6:1
>All praises and thanks be to Allah, Who (Alone) created the heavens and the earth, and originated the darkness and the light, yet those who disbelieve hold others as equal with their Lord.
>being this indoctrinated
The Noble Qur'aan 2:212
>Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allah's Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allah gives (of His Bounty, Blessings, Favours, Honours, etc. on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit.
The Noble Qur'aan 6:5
>Indeed, they rejected the truth (the Quran and Muhammad) when it came to them, but there will come to them the news of that (the torment) which they used to mock at.
The Noble Qur'aan 6:10
>And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked before you, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing that they used to mock at.
The Noble Qur'aan 9:64
>The hypocrites fear lest a Surah (chapter of the Quran) should be revealed about them, showing them what is in their hearts. Say: "(Go ahead and) mock! But certainly Allah will bring to light all that you fear."
The Noble Qur'aan 11:8
>And if We delay the torment for them till a determined term, they are sure to say, "What keeps it back?" Verily, on the day it reaches them, nothing will turn it away from them, and they will be surrounded by (fall in) that at which they used to mock!
The Noble Qur'aan 26:6
>So they have indeed denied (the truth - this Quran), then the news of what they mocked at, will come to them.
The Noble Qur'aan 37:14
>And when they see an Ayah (a sign, a proof, or an evidence) from Allah, they mock at it.
The Noble Qur'aan 83:30
>And whenever they passed by them, used to wink one to another (in mockery);
The Noble Qur'aan 70:36
>So what is the matter with those who disbelieve that they hasten to listen from you, in order to belie you and to mock at you, and at Allah's Book (this Quran)?
Yes, what is the matter with you?
The Noble Qur'aan 4:118-120
>Allah cursed him. And he [Shaitan (Satan)] said: "I will take an appointed portion of your slaves; Verily, I will mislead them, and surely, I will arouse in them false desires; and certainly, I will order them to slit the ears of cattle, and indeed I will order them to change the nature created by Allah." And whoever takes Shaitan (Satan) as a Wali (protector or helper) instead of Allah, has surely suffered a manifest loss. He [Shaitan (Satan)] makes promises to them, and arouses in them false desires; and Shaitan's (Satan) promises are nothing but deceptions.
As for me:
The Noble Qur'aan 15:94
>Therefore proclaim openly that which you are commanded, and turn away from Al-Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, and disbelievers, etc.)
The Noble Qur'aan 21:98-99
>Certainly! You (disbelievers) and that which you are worshipping now besides Allah, are (but) fuel for Hell! (Surely), you will enter it. Had these (idols, etc.) been aliha (gods), they would not have entered there (Hell), and all of them will abide therein.
>oyy veeeyyy people of the book. they know everything because THE BOOK.
The Noble Qur'aan 18:56
>And We send not the Messengers except as giver of glad tidings and warners. But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby. And they treat My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery!
>using the conceptual mind to get close to that which is without concept
I know that was supposed to be ironic (I guess?), but this is really how it works.
Also, people have a bit distorted picture of what worship is (maybe because of prevalent Chistian view on such matters), while it is "just" invocation and evocation of Godforms.
>or am I saying utter shite
You are.
>>using the conceptual mind to get close to that which is without concept
That statement is a weak attempt at appearing to possess wisdom and intellect. It is nothing more than playing with words.
Whoever believes that their mind is conceptual has no choice but to believe that they are then without concept, in which case, you can never know yourself. And if you can't even know the one person/thing closest to you, then you can't know anything else.
This is why things are revealed to mankind (hence REVELATIONS) in order that man use their intellect to understand the concept of what is correct from the One Who created it all in the first place.
But today, people deny this belief, yet, they adopt polytheism and paganism as alternatives, which, if modeled psychologically is like adopting multiple personality disorder.
>Also, people have a bit distorted picture of what worship is (maybe because of prevalent Chistian view on such matters),
The deviation from Monotheism into Poly/Tritheism found in Christianity and Catholicism (which goes further in their idolatry and worship of created matter) has caused a massive schism in the psyche and soul of mankind, this is why we see the spread of atheism. Christians and atheists are cut from the same shroud.
The Christians have faith, but unfortunately, it is infected with pure ignorance.
>while it is "just" invocation and evocation of Godforms.
This belief (if it is as I am reading it) is also a distorted view of worship. Invocation is definitely an act of worship, which is why, in Islam, invocation to the dead, or men or prophets or "saints" or other than that from created matter nullifies Monotheism because we know that the only One worthy of worship is the One Who created all that exists, Allaah.
Evocation of "godforms" is also in contradiction to Monotheism for two reasons. You are trying to evoke for personal reasons, others besides Allaah and believing that these so called "godforms" share in anything of power with Allaah when they fall into what is created. Also, these are jinn and communication with jinn is prohibited by Allaah.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:37-39
>Then Adam received from his Lord Words . And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful. We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) such are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:99
>And indeed We have sent down to you manifest Ayat (these Verses of the Quran which inform in detail about the news of the Jews and their secret intentions, etc.), and none disbelieve in them but Fasiqun (those who rebel against Allah's Command).
The Noble Qur'aan 2:242
>Thus Allah makes clear His Ayat (Laws) to you, in order that you may understand.
The Noble Qur'aan 3:7
>It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.
This does not mean that you can just use the Qur'aan because in the Qur'aan mankind is commanded to follow as an example the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
The Noble Qur'aan 33:36
>It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
The Noble Qur'aan 3:31
>Say (O Muhammad to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Quran and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
The Noble Qur'aan 4:69
>And whoso obeys Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His Grace, of the Prophets, the Siddiqun (those followers of the Prophets who were first and foremost to believe in them, like Abu Bakr As-Siddiq), the martyrs, and the righteous. And how excellent these companions are!
The Noble Qur'aan 4:115
>And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers' way. We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell - what an evil destination.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:143
>Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.
It's a simple matter. No occult (hidden) symbolism and rituals. No secret orders and sects. No worship of self or created matter. Unified under the Qur'aan and Sunnah (way of the Messenger of Allaah). Islam is a clear and simple reality. The enemies of Islam are the ones that distort the image of Islam deliberately to persuade people away from it, and the leader of the disbelievers is Iblees/Shaytaan. The first to defy Allaah with pride and arrogance. They distort the image to serve their purpose, and Allaah makes this clear in the Qur'aan:
7:16
>(Iblis) said: "Because You have sent me astray, surely I will sit in wait against them (human beings) on Your Straight Path.
4:120
>He [Shaitan (Satan)] makes promises to them, and arouses in them false desires; and Shaitan's (Satan) promises are nothing but deceptions.
35:6
>Surely, Shaitan (Satan) is an enemy to you, so take (treat) him as an enemy. He only invites his Hizb (followers) that they may become the dwellers of the blazing Fire.
15:39
>[Iblis (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all.
>That statement is a weak attempt at appearing to possess wisdom and intellect. It is nothing more than playing with words.
What is meant by it is that we perceive ourselves as living in a dual world and hence our mind also thinks in dualistic way and is not able to directly perceive Brahman (non dual and having no qualities). We can instead worship emanations of Brahman as having certain qualities, nevertheless They are still of the nature of Supreme Brahman.
>Invocation is definitely an act of worship
We seem to have a different view on worship, agreed. In my view, by worshiping some Deity you ultimately become it (thus assuming some Godform). For example - mantras are the Deity as a soundform and by repeating it, either verbally or mentally you align your vibrations with the high vibrational state of given Deity and thus your mind is transformed. It's not giving power to something outside of yourself as most people think when they hear the term "worship" but assuming this very power yourself.
At least that's my personal world view based on experience and Tantra.
>deviation from Monotheism into Poly/Tritheism
Mane, you false assume that I give a shit about monotheism.
Best regards.
Stop spaming this shit, spreading your cancerous faith and derailing threads please.
Also, if you somehow found a way into esoteric community you might as well get something out of it. Read "the Compass of Truth", it's a short Sufi work hailing from the Mogul empire circa XVI century.
> "just" invocation and evocation of Godforms.
as for magic in general do you really think there are OBJECTIVE not subjective matters? it is an art. saying "people have a bit distorted picture" well, sir. Don't we all? We try to refine our understanding. So if you see that someone is trying to conceptualize chaos - if it seems total bullshit to you - present an alternative.
Just to make our discussion grow in style.
>You are.
Perhaps. Or maybe it is because you are purple.
anyway, do you think Astarta/Ishtar and german Ostara are the same diety? the same archetype? or when it goes through different racial souls we get different god
>Sufi work
Sufi is so different from generic muslim molochism/monotheism because of the Iranian influence. Religion of Magi. Agree?
Don't you get it, if you have all the answers written in the book, you should rejoice and shut the fuck up.
> is also in contradiction to Monotheism
Isn't Monotheism unfit for the white racial ways? Greek and Judentum: polytheism and monotheism. Plus, Zaratustrian dualism. yet there are different ways coming at dualism.
>they adopt polytheism and paganism
How would you define polutheism and paganism? very vague terms. Lets say hermeticcurrent in the church and reneissance are these traces of paganism?
*
I'm thinking about the methodology of discussion. How to optimize and lessen the communication costs. How do we come to understanding faster. Perhaps, there should be not only a flag that shows our religious affilation, but also a race. Because HOW we percieve, how we live through ideas/concepts is mostly dependant on our racial-spirit.
>as for magic in general do you really think there are OBJECTIVE not subjective matters?
No, I don't.
>people have a bit distorted picture
Maybe I was a bit unfortunate with wording my response, what I meant is that people tend to have this general idea of worship coming from Abrahamic faiths (object of worship being something apart from yourself and giving power away from yourself to it) that they can't see worship in any other light. That's the distortion I was talking about.
>Astarta/Ishtar and german Ostara
I know far too little about Ostara (never even heard the name before) to have anything meaningful to say.
>Sufi is so different from generic muslim molochism/monotheism because of the Iranian influence. Religion of Magi. Agree?
Partially. Again had too little experience with it to say something meaningful. As for the influence - some currents of Sufism were also influenced heavily by Tantra and Hinduism, for example, in "the Compass of Truth" you have descriptions of chakras and some Islamic mantras (but I'm not sure about the last one).
It seems fine as a system, but it's not really my cup of tea. Same as with Christian Gnosticism - I understand the appeal, but it doesn't appeal to me personally and I actually tried reading Nag Hammadi scrolls with open mind.
what does the purple pill mean?
>general idea of worship coming from Abrahamic faiths
Yeah, Abrahamists are serving the demiurge. One God=Moloch. Abraham was born after the flood, right. king-of-this-world probably wiped humanity because they were learning the Science. (good ol' neitzhe once mentioned this).
btw, funny thing. but still resonates with me: Miguel Serrano written that Abraham comes from A-Brahman, the one without connection to the most high. Material-oriented.
>object of worship being something apart from yourself and giving power away from yourself to it
Agree, this is fairly stupid. As I see it: we have devine spark, drop of the Absolute Light in us. And we need to study spirtual science/naturosophia to be able to redeem this spark of light. and (((Enemies))) want to dig us deeper into the matter. Also, matter. Matter. Mother. Great Mother. Ishtar.
>what does the purple pill mean?
It came from those cancer pill memes in which Indigo pill is an archetype of power-obsessed edgy fucker not giving a fuck about morals and being in opposition to green pill and other anti-NWO. I fit in with the archetype in some areas and don't in some others. It's just a moniker under which I post, I was an indigo kid who drank lots of milk and grew up into a healthy indigo pill :^)
Also, I think I started to use it all those years ago because then there was a sort of "status quo" on /fringe/ - people claiming that only self-righteous and moral people can into magic.
>we have devine spark, drop of the Absolute Light in us
Agreed.
>Also, matter. Matter. Mother. Great Mother. Ishtar.
You are onto something I think. In Tantra, Maya - this world of illusion is a play of the Goddess - great Mother Mahamaya (there are also other versions of this, with other Goddesses obscuring the real nature of the universe). For example, everything in the universe is said to consist of certain principles - triple gunas: tamas (which nature is to obscure), rajas (which is action) and sattva (true divine nature). By the action of rajas upon tamas the sattva is obscured. The fierce Goddess Durga and her emanation - Kali are for example connected to the obscuring power of tamas (although I'm not 100% sure about it as I can't remember the exact sources that speak of this connection). Kali is also a creatrix of time, which also constitutes our reality. Nevertheless these Goddesses are of the nature of Supreme Brahman and can lift the veil of Maya from their devotees (if they become enlightened of course).
But I digress. What I mean is that in Tantra, Maya is indeed Mother, it is the Goddess. Where Tantra, and I personally, differ from your view is the duality. "Bad" matter and "good" higher realms. For me this world of illusions is still Goddess and is still "holy". I reject the duality. Nevertheless I'm still against IHVH (or Demiurge, it's the same thing) because as matter is not inherently evil, the enslavement of the human spirit is. I'm not talking about karma or the cycle of reincarnation, as it's something only natural that people reincarnate according to their bonds with this world, but from the more historical perspective rather than metaphysical - Abrahamic faiths destroying cultures, turning people into mindless slaves. I'm against the Church, Islam, Judaism - those feeding the toxic Godform.
From metaphysical point of view - I love matter, but I also love realms beyond it. Through my studies in Tantra I realized that the most suitable path for me is both worldly and magical/spiritual pursuit. But then again, the important thing is to not get yourself entangled in Maya, to always be in control. My view, as you might imagine, was mostly influenced by Eastern systems and there you don't have any Demiurge, only Goddess and Her play.
I think that we, humanity as a whole, are just underdeveloped. I prefer to view matter as a ladder, leading to higher realms. A school for underdeveloped souls if you will.
Although I must admit that this whole connection, Mother Goddess - matter, is apparent to me as I'm an adherent of Shaktism - the cult of the Goddess. To the devotee of Shiva the whole world is Shiva (but anyway Shakti and Shiva are essentially one).
For example the principles on which Aghora (a dark, tamasic sect of Shiva worshipers) is founded are: that Shiva is perfect (having omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence) and that Shiva is responsible for everything that occurs – all conditions, causes and effects. Consequently, everything that exists must be perfect and to deny the perfection of anything would be to deny the sacredness of all life in its full manifestation, as well as to deny the Supreme Being.
I love the grotesque and non-dual approach (of some schools) of Tantra - that you can find the greatest light in the greatest darkness and that anything can be a vehicle of power.
>It came from those cancer pill memes
I think it has more to is than being just a mayhemes.
>You are onto something I think.
Yes, I feel It. Look, you know 3pac(RIP), right? Check 'em clips on youtube. "3Pac - I love McChickens", "3PAC - RICH WHITE MAN CHEVY CHASE" it has 93k views. it is HER number. But most importantly he's wearing a t-shirt with a crossed out owl. Owl is a symbol of darkness and the symbol of goddess Ishtar, queen of the night. Her. Mozart has work der Zauberflote. It is about struggle of Zoroaster and Queen of the Night/Ishtar. Isis. Note: islamic state. Boom! motherfuckers!!!!1
> Kali is also a creatrix of time, which also constitutes our reality.
Yes!
Also Saturn is the ruler of space and time. Him being the demiurge. (though we should abstain from giving moral evaluations good/bad, it's just how things work) Our soul goes down from-beyond through the planetary spheres down to earth. How do we unite Kali and Saturn, are they the same?
>lift the veil of Maya
One of Madame Blavatsky's book is called "Isis unveiled". Isis=Ishtar. To lift
>is apparent to me as I'm an adherent of Shaktism - the cult of the Goddess.
But we need to differentiate between Goddess(heavenly virgin, the cherry pussy juice. Most delightful!) and Mother-Goddess which is castrating vagina-with-teeth that wants to castrate you. Picrelated. Between them lies the Abyss! Truly.
>it has more to it than just being just mayhemes.
> Check 'em music videos on
damn shame, sorry for the grammar.
Where do I even start? I mean this whole post seems like a loosh farm or something, but I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, as I don't know yet your style of posting.
>3PAC - RICH WHITE MAN CHEVY CHASE
Nigga, are you srs?
>it has 93k views. it is HER number.
Source?
>Owl is a symbol of darkness and the symbol of goddess Ishtar
Her sacred animals were lions.
>Ishtar, queen of the night
She doesn't have any special connection with the night.
>How do we unite Kali and Saturn, are they the same?
Don't think so, as Kali (and Her various aspects) have a great deal many more functions and roles than Demiurge. For example, She is also a Goddess of Death and can help a devotee kill his ego for example, or She has also some… calmer aspects as Śri Kalika or Dakshinakalika which give boons to the devotee. The one aspect I think is the closest to the Demiurge would be Mahakali, but She is not only the creatrix of physical plane as She is identical with the Brahman. On the other hand She is, as I mentioned earlier, associated with tamas, which obscures the spiritual reality of the universe. So, I don't think that you can find a direct parallel of Demiurge in the Eastern systems. There are hardly any concepts that can be such translated.
>Isis=Ishtar
Emm… no?
>Mother-Goddess which is castrating vagina-with-teeth that wants to castrate you
Depending perhaps on the world view that you have, I've never encountered such an image and every Goddess (including "le Mother Goddess" Inanna) I was ever worshiping was very benevolent towards mankind and towards me, speaking both from personal experience and from literary sources.
Tbh I don't even know if Inanna can be called Mother Goddess. She was depicted as a Goddess of sex, love and war and her cultus wasn't really concerned with matriarchal part of sex but more with the act itself and the romantic love and not the parental one. Of course as far as I know.
Sorry, tamas is strong in me today. Will try to cool my engine.
I sometimes get so excited over the topic that I leak loosh and get drained. Could it be astral parasites?
>Source?
lets say It was revealed to me.
>She doesn't have any special connection with the night.
Google what Queen of the Night is. It is an archetype. Mozart (a freemason) named them as Sarastro and Queen of the Night.
I understand Night - a material realm. 'Lifting the veil of Isis' is breaking through to the other side.
>Emm… no?
Would a wikipedia quote work?
>"Joseph Campbell, a more recent scholar of comparative mythology, equates Ishtar, Inanna, and Aphrodite, and he draws a parallel between the Egyptian goddess Isis who nurses Horus, and the Assyrian-Babylonian goddess Ishtar who nurses the god Tammuz.[17]"
>Depending perhaps on the world view that you have
I've found book recently (lost it) there was a mother-goddess cult and world wars. If someone has it, - I'd be grateful.
>It is an archetype
Which Inanna doesn't fit IMHO.
>I understand Night - a material realm.
Inanna doesn't have any special connection with material realm either, at least not any more than other Sumerian deities. Tiamat, the primordial Great Mother who created the world and her draconic brood, now that's another story.
>Would a wikipedia quote work?
Yeah, I've read that but I understood the quote as basing the comparison only on the one aspect - the nursing of some God and that isn't quite enough to equate the two Goddesses. Also, the sentence is built in an unclear way
>equates Ishtar, Inanna, and Aphrodite
so Inanna = Ishtar = Aphrodite
>he draws a parallel between the Egyptian goddess Isis who nurses Horus, and the Assyrian-Babylonian goddess Ishtar who nurses the god Tammuz
so, the situation of nursing some God is kinda similar, maybe?
Especially given the original myth. The reason that Dumuzi (Sumerian for Tummuzi) had to be nursed by Inanna was the Goddess Herself and her descent to the Underworld. Also, Horus was a son of Isis and Dumuzi was a consort of Inanna, we can agree that the nursing of son and of a lover is quite a different matter in terms of symbolism, no?
>I've found book recently (lost it) there was a mother-goddess cult and world wars. If someone has it, - I'd be grateful.
As I've stated - I'm primarily thinking in terms of Eastern systems, and there such notion is alien. In Western ones, maybe not so, Tiamat Herself was planning on killing Her son, and you also have Cronos, Saturn etc. (but they are not Mothers nor Goddesses I guess).
>Mane, you false assume that I give a shit about monotheism.
This was just in response to your statement about Christianity which I was elaborating on, not assuming what you care for.
>We seem to have a different view on worship, agreed.
Agreed.
>It's not giving power to something outside of yourself as most people think when they hear the term "worship" but assuming this very power yourself.
Well, worship doesn't give power to the worshipped. In Islaam it is not about giving power to Allaah. Worship are acts of obedience, such as being truthful, righteous, helping the oppressed and so forth. Then you have obligatory worship, which are the prayer, the only act a humanbeing can perform to give thanks to Allaah. Then you have fasting during the month of Ramadhaan, giving the obligatory charity for the poor and pilgrimage to Mecca. As a matter of fact, any act that is done for the sake of Allaah alone is an act of worship as long as it doesn't contradict the command of Allaah.
So I do not understand this form of worship either. Allah is not a device and we are not chargers.
>by worshiping some Deity you ultimately become it (thus assuming some Godform).
How? If this were true, Muslims, of all people would have control of all the particles of creation but clearly, this is pure delusion. No human being can attain "godform".
>For example - mantras are the Deity as a soundform and by repeating it, either verbally or mentally you align your vibrations with the high vibrational state of given Deity and thus your mind is transformed.
>mantras are the Deity as a soundform
The dhikr/adhkar is not Allaah in sound form. Since you mentioned mantras.
> either verbally or mentally you align your vibrations with the high vibrational state of given Deity
I don't know about lining your vibrations with the dhikr but it does change your spiritual state. Saying, SUNHAANALLAAH, ALHAMDULILLAAH, LAA ILAHAH ILLA ALLAAH and ALLAAHU AKBAR through out the day or, SUBHAANALLAAHI WA BIHAMDIH, or LAA HAWLA WALA QUWATTA ILLA BILLAAH are remedies for sick hearts and corrupted souls. But you do not become Allaah or sync with Him. You remember Him and are in a constant state of remembrance.
And combined with the salaah (prayer) 5 times a day spread about with the heads of millions, if not billions, of people touching the ground in one unified direction, is the detoxifying act of worship, the obligation which also contains the dhikr (remembrance) of Allaah so Muslims are in this state 24/7, at least the ones who practice sincerely.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:152
>Therefore remember Me (by praying, glorifying, etc.). I will remember you, and be grateful to Me (for My countless Favours on you) and never be ungrateful to Me.
Vibrationally [sic] speaking, you can imply based on that theory that
>you align your vibrations with the high vibrational state
So, submit to Allaah, the Lord of ALL that exists, with full and correct submission (meaning do not deviate with those who deviate from what is correct)
>thus your mind is transformed.
>Agreed.
Agreed.
>How? If this were true, Muslims, of all people would have control of all the particles of creation but clearly, this is pure delusion.
If you are an occultist or a mystic, are well versed in meditation and you are developed enough then it can happen. Never claimed that anyone can do this. Especially not someone who follows blindly some dogmas.
also
>The dhikr/adhkar is not Allaah in sound form.
Maybe here you have a reason why :^)
>No human being can attain "godform".
*Tips fedo…*
*Tips taqiyah*
Again, what are you even doing on this board? No, seriously, you are not going to find any followers here so either you are just preaching for the sake of preaching or preaching for the sake of shitposting. Either way you are wasting your time.
>Don't you get it, if you have all the answers written in the book, you should rejoice and shut the fuck up.
I rejoice everyday and give thanks to Allaah. But I won't keep silent about it, otherwise, the falsehood that you spread will infect those who know nothing. I post it hear because I happened to have stumble onto this site from I forgot where like 3 days ago, and I speak it to people. Perhaps you should be quiet. And begin to learn something.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:171
>And the example of those who disbelieve, is as that of him who shouts to the (flock of sheep) that hears nothing but calls and cries. (They are) deaf, dumb and blind. So they do not understand.
Perhaps this is your case, but not everyone.
>Isn't Monotheism unfit for the white racial ways? Greek and Judentum: polytheism and monotheism.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:213
>Mankind were one community and Allah sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed. And only those to whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it after clear proofs had come unto them through hatred, one to another. Then Allah by His Leave guided those who believed to the truth of that wherein they differed. And Allah guides whom He wills to a Straight Path.
The Noble Qur'aan 16:35
>And those who join others in worship with Allah say: "If Allah had so willed, neither we nor our fathers would have worshipped aught but Him, nor would we have forbidden anything without (Command from) Him." So did those before them. Then! Are the Messengers charged with anything but to convey clearly the Message?
>yet there are different ways coming at dualism.
The Noble Qur'aan 3:83
>Do they seek other than the religion of Allah (the true Islamic Monotheism worshipping none but Allah Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.
The Noble Qur'aan 3:85
>And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.
>How would you define polutheism and paganism? very vague terms. Lets say hermeticcurrent in the church and reneissance are these traces of paganism?
From the perspective of Islaam, POLYTHEISM and PAGANISM all fall under what is called SHIRK (associationism): taking anything created, men, statues, images, ideas (personal/external from others) and ascribing them to, with or instead in worship or in worship with Allaah.
There is SHIRKUL AKBAR (Major Shirk) and SHIRKUL ASGHAR (Minor Shirk).
Major shirk nullifies TAWHEED (Monotheism) and expells one from the fold of Islam
And example of this is the worship of men/women/angels etc, saint worship, grave worship, idolatry, polytheism (believing and serving more than one god) which, we do not deny that these gods existence, they exist but are false gods and are themselves created by Allaah and are His slaves, that is, all the other gods men worship besides Allaah.
Minor Shirk does not nullify ones Islaam (submission to Allaah) but corrupts it and can lead one to major shirk. Examples of this can be swearing on other than Allaah (anything else besides or with Allaah), like on prophets or parents or graves (like when people say "I swear on so-and-so's grave"), saying "If it hadn't be for such and such, then such and such" etc and things to this effect. Idolizing anything created (alive or inanimate). Showing off in acts of worship to Allaah and in general to be seen by people. Denying the command of Allaah because of what people say, like saying to someone "I do not have to pray since I do not live in a Muslim country anymore", actually, that renders this individual as a kaffir (disbeliever). Asking men or suppossed saints/gurus/priests/imaams to help you in matters only Allaah can help with, like asking them to intercede between them and Allaah. or Asking them for blessings.
>follows blindly some dogmas.
That's a major assumption. Assuming I was born into an Islaamic family or even assuming I don't actually study Islaam and comparative religion and beliefs.
>Maybe here you have a reason why
Yes, Allaah is above His creation. He is not with us here or in us.
>*Tips fedo…*
>*Tips taqiyah*
Lol, TAQIYYAH is deliberate deception which is practiced by Shi'ites. I am not a shi'ite. Shi'ites believe the stuff you believe. They worship their imaams because they believe that they control the atoms of creation. Shi'ism in general is not Islam, it is its own polytheist and pagan religion. Even their imagery and symbolism exposes them.
>Again, what are you even doing on this board? No, seriously, you are not going to find any followers here so either you are just preaching for the sake of preaching or preaching for the sake of shitposting. Either way you are wasting your time.
I stumbled on here quite accidentally from another site. I am responding to what I have read. I have read the rules and I am not breaking them. My posts directly address the OP's topic and/or directly respond to comments made.
Your personal opinion doesn't matter. It isn't a waste of time, if even ONE person reads it and learns something, and that makes them better than you and more knowledgeable. So, calm yourself down, sit back, and read or don't.
>Fucking behead us already, it would be less painful than your gibberish.
Do you represent every user on this board? Why are you so emotional?
>Are mods sleeping or what?
Crying for mommy because you can't hold your own?
>Yes, Allaah is above His creation. He is not with us here or in us.
That's the epitome of an exoteric religion.
>Why are you so emotional?
I'm calm, it was a joke you know. Sarcasm if you wish.
>Crying for mommy because you can't hold your own?
Nah, because people come to fringechan instead of the containment board and shit all over our threads.
Also, how can I "hold my own" against someone who doesn't wish for any serious discussion or consensus? You have your opinions I have mine, but you are not trying to understand occultism, you are not trying to talk to me about it. You don't even know our terminology, nor the things we do here, you don't know anything about magic apart from what you have read in your book and we basically have no common ground. What you are trying to do is shove your beliefs up my throat. You won't succeed of course, but it is further derailing the thread.
>Are mods sleeping or what?
What do you want them to do? He's exercising his right of free speech, even though nearly everyone disagrees with him. He feels as if quoting the Qur'aan is going to convince anyone here. The ones that fall for it deserve to fall for it. Though I do agree, it does pollute. Best course of action is to ignore it. As much as I would like him gone, banning or censoring him is against the nature of free speech.
Added to that, I haven't read much of his posts - and most others here since a couple of weeks because my time has been constrained. You could file a report and we'd look into it, or reply to this and tell me why you need him to receive special treatment.
On another note, as much as I would like to debunk all his attempts at defaming mankind's true creator God ENKI/Satan, don't get me wrong I do, but time is not on my side.
Coincidentally, I have some Reverse Torah Rituals planned for tonight aimed at destroying Islam and Allah – unrelated to his ramblings might I add, just because it's what the JoS prescribed recently.
I'll see if I can find the rituals. I'll post them.
It was intended to be.
Apalm isn't actually a satanist it's a thin veneer of humor created by a smirking adept.
>free speech
>reply to this and tell me why you need him to receive special treatment
Yeah, I know I'm wrong, it's just… Lately there were so many shitposters here that it started to really annoy me. When the fringechan was created I was so happy that we can have a community without all this cancer that was coming to /fringe/ and now the cancer is here. Although incomparably less of it than on 8ch obviously.
Nevermind, I think I overreacted, although it really is derailing the thread.
If you have a while, some anon
asked about the meaning of the inverted pentagram and who better to answer him than you?
>I have some Reverse Torah Rituals planned for tonight aimed at destroying Islam and Allah
Hit em hard!
Take care Alpam!
>That's the epitome of an exoteric religion.
Ok, and?
>Also, how can I "hold my own" against someone who doesn't wish for any serious discussion or consensus?
I have been having a serious discussion. You just happen to not like it because it doesn't agree with you. I'm not the one being sarcastic or joking around.
>You have your opinions I have mine, but you are not trying to understand occultism
Is that assuming I don't or was not involved in it before embracing Islaam?
>you are not trying to talk to me about it.
If I want to talk occultism, I'll go back to SF and meet up with Steven Leyba.
>You don't even know our terminology, nor the things we do here, you don't know anything about magic apart from what you have read in your book and we basically have no common ground
Perhaps not anymore. It's been well over 15 years since I have indulged in any of this.
> What you are trying to do is shove your beliefs up my throat. You won't succeed of course, but it is further derailing the thread.
You are very self absorbed, makes sense being an occultist since all it is about is pleasing yourself. I am not here to shove my beliefs down anyones throats. First of all, this is text, and you do NOT have to read them, you can practice the right to freedom of choice. Secondly, I am only contibuting and refuting with what I consider what is better, the Speech of Allaah, the Qur'aan. You may not like it, and that's none of my business. The fact that you have to openly exclaim "You won't succeed" is a sign that your own foundations are rotten and weak, so you have to reassure yourself and others inorder to feel grounded.
>my
Get over yourself.
>shitposter
This is like saying "I'm triggered" because what you read does not go in accord with your bratty attitude. The world does not revolve around you.
>started to really annoy me
Man, could you whine some more?
>When the fringechan was created I was so happy that we can have a community without all this cancer that was coming to /fringe/ and now the cancer is here.
I suppose it never crossed that feeble mind that perhaps the knowledge you seek is cancer and what you perceive as cancer is the cure…nope.
>I think I overreacted,
Yes, yes you did.
>although it really is derailing the thread.
Stop whining so much and post something of substance, if you think you have it to refute what I am saying, if you really wish to put the train of thought back on course. Complaining to others does nothing.
>your own foundations are rotten and weak, so you have to reassure yourself and others inorder to feel grounded
>psychological projection
Also, I'm not the one who preaches the supremacy of my belief system over others.
>if you really wish to put the train of thought back on course
On what course? Goddess Inanna? Or is it now thread about Islam?
Human arrogance however is greater than the curiosity for truth. To say that one book holds all answers is like saying Carl Marx's books contains all political knowledge ever needed.
There is no trademark on spirituality from one teaching or philosophy. You won't find the truth in one place.
To idolize the All and claim that there are rules man must follow is truly arrogant. The All created everything, including the very fallen angels that would rebel against the system. Accept that Chaos is part of the creation.
>Also, I'm not the one who preaches the supremacy of my belief system over others.
Because you can't with any solid foundation.
I can say Islaam is superior over your and every other belief based on the text. Whether you accept it or not, I have a solid foundation.
The Noble Qur'aan 9:33
>It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).
The Noble Qur'aan 3:85
>And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.
That is not to say I myself am over anyone. I am saying that Islaam IS superior to any and all other religions and belief systems because Allaah Says it and I accept it as such.
>On what course? Goddess Inanna? Or is it now thread about Islam?
OP asked:
>Who is Isis/Ishtar/Queen of the Night/May Queen/M?
Followed by:
>Baal's/Moloch/Allah's Bride
Implying that Baa' and Moloch and Allaah are the same.
So this is where I decided to start commenting. If anyone is going to speak without knowledge, there will always be someone to correct it by the Will of Allaah. Interesting how, all of this began.
I had no idea this chan even existed nor did I have any interest in finding anything about it. Somehow I come here and this is the first thing I see. All I did was refute that implication using the Qur'aan itself, where Allaah Himself Speaks for Himself.
Baal (Ba‘al dhubaab):
The Noble Qur'aan 37:125-126
>"Will you call upon Ba'l (a well- known idol of his nation whom they used to worship) and forsake the Best of creators, Allah, your Lord and the Lord of your forefathers?"
As for Moloch:
It cannot be associated by what is perceived to be a relation through etymological roots. Meaning, if Moloch means "The King" and Al-Malik means "The King" the reality of this is that one of the two are false kings. Whereas The True King is Allaah (Al-Malik, ONE of the 99 revelaed names of Allaah), this does not mean He is Moloch (The King) believed to be such by the Babylonians.
>To say that one book holds all answers is like saying Carl Marx's books contains all political knowledge ever needed
To say that Allaah Speaks the Truth is not. Do you know better than Allaah?
>There is no trademark on spirituality from one teaching or philosophy. You won't find the truth in one place.
The Noble Qur'aan 1:2
>All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
The Noble Qur'aan 5:48
>And We have sent down to you (O Muhammad) the Book (this Quran) in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging away from the truth that has come to you. To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way. If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation, but that (He) may test you in what He has given you; so strive as in a race in good deeds. The return of you (all) is to Allah; then He will inform you about that in which you used to differ.
The Noble Qur'aan 6:57
>Say: "I am on clear proof from my Lord (Islamic Monotheism), but you deny (the truth that has come to me from Allah). I have not gotten what you are asking for impatiently (the torment). The decision is only for Allah, He declares the truth, and He is the Best of judges."
>To idolize the All and claim that there are rules man must follow is truly arrogant.
Idolize the "All"?
To deny that there are no rules that must be followed is ignorance.
>The All created everything,
Who is the "All"?
>including the very fallen angels that would rebel against the system.
"Fallen angels"? What are you going on about mate?
The Noble Qur'aan 2:34
>And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam.". And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah).
The Noble Qur'aan 2:36-39
>Then the Shaitan (Satan) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time." Then Adam received from his Lord Words . And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful. We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) such are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever.
>Accept that Chaos is part of the creation.
In order to set things in order, chaos has to be acknowledge and accepted as reality, yes. You don't just accept it and do nothing about it, that defeats the purpose.
The Noble Qur'aan 4:117
>They (all those who worship others than Allah) invoke nothing but female deities besides Him (Allah), and they invoke nothing but Shaitan (Satan), a persistent rebel!
>Implying that Baa' and Moloch and Allaah are the same.
Could you explain what are these respectively? present definitions. Baal is Lord. Molock is King. They seem very close to me.
>"Will you call upon Ba'l (a well- known idol of his nation whom they used to worship
Why allah is not idol? Because the book says so? we've got to go deeper. what is idol and how it is different from God?
what is your ethnicity? I believe people percieve sacred matters depending on their racial background. so if you're of racially ehm.. muslim ethnicities we have different perceptions keep that in mind. you understanding of God will differ from mine.
>thinks he can talk shit
>probably only has one wife
>doesn't even have a prepubescent wife like Mohammed, Peace Be Upon Him
I bet you eat during Ramadan filth.
ONLY THE TRULY PIOUS SHALL REMAIN
I am a true believer.
You are of such little faith you might as well be a jew pig.
Death to those without the faith to bring the Caliphate.
DEATH TO THE ENEMIES OF ALLAH
You give the rest of us a bad name, regardless you're shitposting so have fun being ignored
And this is an example of the mentality of those from the deviant group the khawarij and ikhwaanul muslimeen
Also, this is probably, if not a kaffir, a massive ignoramus.
The fact that you use the symbol of crescent moon and star exposes your ignorance.
That symbol has no basis in Islaam. It was never used by Allaah's Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) nor was it used by his Sahabah or those who followed them.
If you knew about Islaam, you would know that there will be no Caliphate until Allaah sends the Mahdi before the return of Jesus, son of Mary and the Final Hour is established.
ISIS is a combination of Khawarij (Takfiri extremists), Raafidah (Shi'ites) and Sufis. Along with other sub groups.
As the salaf said, the khawarij have no scholars with them and that means those with that mentality are ignorant of this deen.
I didn't post those verses of The Noble Qur'aan for this sort of rhetoric.
But this is probably kuffar trying to be clever so, regardless, go learn about the core belief in Islaam, Tawheed.
This must be a kaffir trying to pretend to be a Muslim.
>ONLY THE TRULY PIOUS SHALL REMAIN
You are seriously ignorant of Islaam.
>I am a true believer.
This knowledge is only with Allaah.
>You are of such little faith you might as well be a jew pig.
Are you talking to yourself?
>Death to those without the faith to bring the Caliphate.
Yea, this means "kill muslims that do not agree with our views"…in Islaam the blood of a Muslim, his honor and property and wealth is haraam (cannot be violated) by other Muslims. And the so-called caliphate that the people of innovation and ignorance and desires call to today is a mere smoke screen. It is a scam, and all these people want is power and authority and wealth. And this can be seen by their actions.
>DEATH TO THE ENEMIES OF ALLAH
The Noble Qur'aan 4:80
>He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad), has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammad) as a watcher over them.
The Noble Qur'aan 6:107
>Had Allah willed, they would not have taken others besides Him in worship. And We have not made you a watcher over them nor are you set over them to dispose of their affairs.
Go read the Qur'aan and Hadeeth properly and stop being a fool. (This means, do not try to respond with any arguments about Jihaad, because clearly you are a person of compound ignorance)
posting quotes from the quran without context is bad practice and therefore you are encouraging ignorance, especially since this board is about mysticism and it is said there are seven different layers of meanings to the quran. Not to mention that you post english quotes and there could be multiple interpretations. have you never talked about islam on an imageboard? you will end up arguing with people who hate islam and do the exact same thing that you are doing : posting bits and pieces of the quran that are out of context and very often bad translations.
maybe, but that's how someone in ISIS talks
saying that someone claiming to be a msulim is not a real muslim, is the same mistake that the wahhabi/salafi terrorists are doing.
also on a less important note, belittling someone for their ignorance as part of your argument is rude and you shouldn't do that for reasons you should know very well. I'll say this or that is retarded as a joke but if you're going on explaining islam in the same post then you're just making it look bad
You have not met Allah and you do not know what it is. To recite a book in order to try and prove your devotion works in science, but it does not work for religion, philosophy or esoterics.
The Noble Qur'aan: 9:29
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
There is no fighting among people on this website. Any man of any faith may come unto this website and explore the depth of the arts and share his finding with the rest. It is one of the reasons why you can come here and recite all your fancy quotes, because we are open to interpretation and developing ourselves.
Sadly, you are throwing a fight against a website of users that do not care about your "ignorant" religion as they have their eyes set further forward than simple submission.
You are welcome to come here with a curious mind on things your book cannot explain. You are welcome to ask questions and tell us about your revelations as the angels might have come unto you with messages like the prophet received them once.
But following your religion blindly, listening to imams rather than using your own common sense and reason (which was given unto you by the lord), you become the anti-christ of the new world. It is your duty to study the arts of many schools in order to learn the true truth. One book does not give you all the answers and if the book claims it does, you should think twice before swallowing the book whole.
Do you even know what the voice inside your mind is? Do you even care?
>posting quotes from the quran without context is bad practice and therefore you are encouraging ignorance
The Aayaat of the Qur'aan have specific and general meanings. I am using their general meaning in context to the flow of discussion since this is not a session of tafseer but a response to obstinate opponents.
>especially since this board is about mysticism and it is said there are seven different layers of meanings to the quran
>seven different layers of meanings to the quran
Can you share the source for this claim because I have not heard of it.
>Not to mention that you post english quotes and there could be multiple interpretations
I posted the English translation from the Muhsin Khaan/Hilali translation because it is known to be the best one in English for those who do not know Arabic. And like I said, this is not a class on tafseer,
>have you never talked about islam on an imageboard?
If you read the post, you would see why I respond with those verses, in English.
>you will end up arguing with people who hate islam and do the exact same thing that you are doing
See, I am not arguing. I am only responding with relevant quotes, directly to whatever comments where made. If you want to discuss the verses in context, then we can do that in another discussion.
>posting bits and pieces of the quran that are out of context and very often bad translations.
The difference is that I do not grab from anywhere that is labeled "Islaam" like these people do, googling and taking from people who may not even be Muslim, much less knowledgeable.
>maybe, but that's how someone in ISIS talks
This is an image board, and you made statements in a manner that is not representative of Islaam, rather, it is representative of your own emotional state, whatever it may be.
>saying that someone claiming to be a msulim is not a real muslim, is the same mistake that the wahhabi/salafi terrorists are doing.
I said that THAT knowledge is only with Allaah. And any believer who is sincere knows this, and he knows that he may fall in to nifaaq or kufr at any moment, no one feels safe from the punishment of Allaah except a liar and hypocrite. I never said who is or isn't a real Muslim but I have my reasons to doubt who posts what based on the responses and your sudden outburst. Also, that "wahhabi/salafi" remark is pretty telling, tell me, if you are Muslim, what is your madhhab or manhaj?
>belittling someone for their ignorance as part of your argument is rude and you shouldn't do that for reasons you should know very well.
I agree with this.
>I'll say this or that is retarded as a joke
I wasn't joking.
>but if you're going on explaining islam in the same post then you're just making it look bad
Pic related
>To your whole post
If this is the result of your "esoteric knowledge", then what can you tell me?
That's a rhetorical question.
>on things your book cannot explain
Oh, please, elaborate.
>your "ignorant" religion
"ignorant"? What do you mean by this? Why is ignorant in between quotation marks?
>their eyes set further forward than simple submission.
You have no vision, no in-sight.
The blind led by the blind…are you the leader?
Look at your own post again.
>tell us about your revelations as the angels might have come unto you with messages like the prophet received them once.
You really think I am as full of myself as you or these others may be? To think angels would come to me or you or any of us? Please, who drinks this dribble that comes out of your mouth? I feel sorry for you and whoever takes you seriously.
>But following your religion blindly
HAH of course, I follow blindly because I don't come seeking knowledge from you. Please, come up with a better rebuttal than this.
>listening to imams rather than using your own common sense and reason (which was given unto you by the lord)
My man, you are in a severe state of self-admiration and delusion.
>you become the anti-christ of the new world.
Look, this combination of words of yours you do not even understand. You are just typing to sound "deep" or profound. You only decieve yourself.
>It is your duty to study the arts of many schools in order to learn the true truth.
If you want to waste your precious time in what is of no benefit, by all means, do what you have to do.
>the true truth
And what is that?
>One book does not give you all the answers and if the book claims it does, you should think twice before swallowing the book whole.
You don't even know what you are looking for. You are going in circles, and even worse, whatever you have as a foundation to stand on is extremely weak.
>Do you even know what the voice inside your mind is? Do you even care?
This made me laugh. Please, do not project your schizophrenic mental state on me or anyone else.
>opponents
wtf? you arent in a holy war, we are on a forum discussing religion. since they are ignorant of islam talking about islam would by definition be tafseer
some say the source is a hadeeth but I haven't found it, others say it's from one of the first shia imams. regardless, even if that qoute was false, there is a lot of discourse regarding the esoteric nature and multiple meanings and metaphors of the verses in the quran.
ha that translation has been widely criticized as having wahhabi interpretations
of course you are arguing, your responses with quotes are attempts to contradict what you are responding to
>The difference is that I do not grab from anywhere that is labeled "Islaam" like these people do, googling and taking from people who may not even be Muslim, much less knowledgeable.
that's a baseless opinion that literally anyone can make towards anyone
>>maybe, but that's how someone in ISIS talks
>This is an image board, and you made statements in a manner that is not representative of Islaam, rather, it is representative of your own emotional state, whatever it may be.
that literally has nothing to do with what I said
>And the so-called caliphate that the people of innovation and ignorance and desires call to today is a mere smoke screen. It is a scam, and all these people want is power and authority and wealth. And this can be seen by their actions.
that's literally you claiming the caliphate of muslims is false. I would have said the same thing until I learned of what is causing salafis to kill each other, now I know it's better to just say that they are very bad muslims.
I don't subscribe to any school of thought personally, but my family is supposed to be hanafi. you can't be seriously supporting the flawed ideology of wahhabism are you?
your last 3 remarks don't make sense or are contradictory
you should stop making such giant posts. especially if you say you aren't arguing, then breaking up posts and responding to each part makes you look like you're scrutinizing.
>>It is your duty to study the arts of many schools in order to learn the true truth.
>If you want to waste your precious time in what is of no benefit, by all means, do what you have to do.
It literally says in many verses and hadeeths to pursue knowledge with reasoning and logic, even if it's from china as one example states. there are many unnamed prophets who's material may be anywhere.
reciting a book works just as well anywhere. that is to say it doesn't even work in science if you cannot use reasoning and logic to connect the concepts. qoutes are absolutely meaningless by themselves.
Also the whole point of islam is that no further books or revelations are required. one book CAN give all the answers, the challenge though is being able to decipher the answer you are looking for. The point of studying learning understanding other sources scriptures etc is to use that as supplemental information to help discover other secrets in the quran. I'm a huge fan of montalk's stuff and though I haven't been able to connect all of it to islam, there was such a thing called "islamic neoplatonism" and it's incredibly interesting reading about it.
>Do you even know what the voice inside your mind is? Do you even care?
Aha the answer for this I had to learn from bhudism. It's pretty sad that muslims are so ignorant about their own religion that I couldn't get the answers I need from my own people. However coming back to islamic material I realize now the concepts of consciousness/higher-self and ego are the same as the rue and nafs in islam.
Oh and btw that verse is from the 9th surah which is only to be followed when there is a war declared against islam. if that isn't the case then it's not supposed to be followed. this is most evident by the fact that the 9th surah is the only one that doesn't begin with bismillah 'in the name of allah' as it is about conflicts created by willpower and not directly caused by god
>wtf? you arent in a holy war, we are on a forum discussing religion. since they are ignorant of islam talking about islam would by definition be tafseer
>wtf?
>Anyway, yes, an opponent is one who opposes so, technically speaking, whoever opposes, by way of mockery or rejection is a clear and open opponent. Even in discussions and debates, if you listen attentively, you will here the debaters referred to as opponents.
You need to relax.
>since they are ignorant of islam talking about islam would by definition be tafseer
No, tafseer is detailed explanations of the Qur'aan. This is also explains the religion, obviously but talking about Islam is not Tafseer, but Tafseer is illuminating the realities of Islaam.
>that's a baseless opinion that literally anyone can make towards anyone
Except that the sources are the proof of the reality, and so are the words used.
>that's literally you claiming the caliphate of muslims is false. I would have said the same thing until I learned of what is causing salafis to kill each other, now I know it's better to just say that they are very bad muslims.
I am claiming that the ISIS brand of Caliphate is false, the Baghdadi brand. What di you learn of what causes supposed salafees to kill each other?
>I don't subscribe to any school of thought personally, but my family is supposed to be hanafi. you can't be seriously supporting the flawed ideology of wahhabism are you?
I ascribe to Salafiyyah. No body but people belonging to deviant groups and non-Muslims use the term Wahabbi and this is a fact.
>your last 3 remarks don't make sense or are contradictory
Can you explain instead of just stating it?
>you should stop making such giant posts. especially if you say you aren't arguing,
Don't tell me how I should write.
>then breaking up posts and responding to each part makes you look like you're scrutinizing.
I am. I am responding to what is being said. Problem?
>It literally says in many verses and hadeeths to pursue knowledge with reasoning and logic, even if it's from china as one example states. there are many unnamed prophets who's material may be anywhere.
This is a different matter. What is being reffered to hear is occult knowledge, that which is based on major shirlk.
>It literally says in many verses and hadeeths to pursue knowledge with reasoning and logic,
Please, post them, also, post what is meant by knowledge. Does it mean the occult? Does it mean knowledge of the "Books of Solomon" (books of Sihr attributed to him)? No, the knowledge in those verses and hadeeth refer to knowledge of Allaah and of Islaam.
You can learn what you need to sustain yourself for worship in the temporal life of this world but everything besides knowledge and seeking knowledge (of Allaah/Islaam), acts of worship and the dhikr of Allaah is cursed.
>even if it's from china as one example states. there are many unnamed prophets who's material may be anywhere.
And how will you do this if you have no knowledge of your religion? And how will you have knowledge of your religion if you are constantly distracted by that which will avail you of nothing in this life and in the akhirah?
>It's pretty sad that muslims are so ignorant about their own religion
What are we ignorant of?
Also, stop pandering to these people. You appear like a lap dog with it's tongue out, wagging its tail for those who call you to shirk and kufr, so you can be petted and accepted.
gentlemen the shill has revealed himself
learning about things can never be shirk or sinful in anyway. learning something doesn't mean you will practice it. one should learn how to use black magic so that they can identify others using it and advice to stop it and to make sure one does not do it accidentally. also there's a case to be made that even practicing some types of occult is not haram. some even consider many types of sufism to be occcult, though so would you considering your salafist ideology
shirk only means to believe in more than one god, that the source somehow was not alone in creating the universe
>I ascribe to Salafiyyah
you even mention that isis are takfiri hardliners. takfir is bad and only wahhabi/salafis believe in that. and who are the wahhabi and salafis in the world? literally only terrorists and the house of saud in power of the arab nations
>Don't tell me how I should write.
>I am. I am responding to what is being said. Problem?
okay. from now on I'll just ignore your cringe inducing posts. have fun receiving zero responses
you're an idiot
>the shill
Still pandering to these people. YOU are the one arguing against a Muslim siding with non-Muslims. I suppose like that magic statement you made below, it must take one to know one? Or you are just trying to project your reality on me because it is exposing your ignorance.
>learning about things can never be shirk or sinful in anyway.
Never said this.
>learning something doesn't mean you will practice it
That's what you think. You find truth in Buddhism, and Buddhism is shirk and kufr.
>one should learn how to use black magic
This is prohibited in Islam.
The Noble Qur'aan 2:102
>They followed what the Shayatin (devils) gave out (falsely of the magic) in the lifetime of Sulaiman (Solomon). Sulaiman did not disbelieve, but the Shayatin (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels, Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) till they had said, "We are only for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us)." And from these (angels) people learn that by which they cause separation between man and his wife, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's Leave. And they learn that which harms them and profits them not. And indeed they knew that the buyers of it (magic) would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their ownselves, if they but knew.
The Muslim that indulges in magic/sihr his salaah is nullified and not accepted for 40 days and he still has to pray and if they abandon the salaah, they are a kaffir until they return and make taubah.
>so that they can identify others using it and advice to stop it and to make sure one does not do it accidentally
Yea, right. This is the worst argument. One thing is learning ABOUT it, and what you suggested was "learn how to use it". Those are two different forms of knowledge regarding sihr.
>also there's a case to be made that even practicing some types of occult is not haram.
This is a blatant lie as sihr carries the punishment of execution for the practitioner and there is no good sihr and bad sihr, it is just sihr.
>some even consider many types of sufism to be occcult,
Sufism, by their beliefs and practices are clear deviants. The only people that do not know this are two: those who follow desires and those ignorant of their religion.
>shirk only means to believe in more than one god, that the source somehow was not alone in creating the universe
See?
That is ONE aspect of shirk
>takfir is bad and only wahhabi/salafis believe in that.
Again, people like you are extremely untrustworthy because you carry tales and stories you hear. You hear one thing and just carry it around spreading it, without any knowledge.
>and who are the wahhabi and salafis in the world? literally only terrorists and the house of saud in power of the arab nations
I am not a terrorist nor am I part of the house of Sa'ud, nor am I an Arab, your baseless statement is null and void. You need to learn how NOT to carry tales because the people who do that have a severe punishment in Jahannam.
>okay. from now on I'll just ignore your cringe inducing posts. have fun receiving zero responses
Do not let my responses make you feel as if I validate your nonsensical rhetoric.
>you're an idiot
So much for ignoring
Don't be mad at the reality. Instead, just stop doing it.
anyways back on the topic of the thread. moloch is referenced as a proper noun as a reference to an actual deity in the canaanite religion. moloch is then condemned in the old testament. this is different from the term malek or malik, and is just a word for a king in hebrew and arabic.
consider this a response to
note that sufi simply means esoteric version of islam and there could be sufi versions of any islamic school of thought (although I doubt there could be any sufi version of wahhabi or salafi as that would be very contradictory). the persian influenced sufi branch of shia islam may be Isma'ilism though I am not sure. there is also the shia Zaidiyyah (who are currently in yemen being bombed by saudi) and also the Muʿtazila which is not shia and could be considered to be somewhat sunni.
>oyy veeeyyy people of the book. they know everything because THE BOOK. You got the message. I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class from mosque. Reading and citing the Book. I will shit quotation fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
LMFAO
isn't the demiurge required for the physical realm to exist? are you saying the physical realm is a mistake? incarnating in the physical realm is not by accident, and it's a conscious decision we make and forget about so that we can learn from it. a very big learning process would be missing without this experience and would be a broken ascension into the next higher realm, perhaps allowing chaos to reign free and making any higher dimension enlightenment impossible.
can we please enable ids? it's going to be a hassle hiding every wall of texts that shills happen to posts
yea I finally got aorund to reading the thread, hiding every sperg post and my fingers hurt now
>isn't the demiurge required for the physical realm to exist?
Why would it be so? Anyway, it depends on what belief system you have and what do you mean by "demiurge". You mean this entity that created the physical plane and was called so by the first Christians, or do you mean any creator entity?
>are you saying the physical realm is a mistake?
No, why?
>and it's a conscious decision we make and forget about
Don't know about that. We don't choose the laws of karma, nor our bonds with this world, it's just a part of a cycle, leading from less developed consciousness to the more developed. At least it's what I believe in, it's not like I can prove it in some way.
>a very big learning process would be missing without this experience
I wrote:
>I think that we, humanity as a whole, are just underdeveloped. I prefer to view matter as a ladder, leading to higher realms. A school for underdeveloped souls if you will.
Don't know where are you coming from with all of this m8, you sound like you didn't read my post but you still disagree with me for some reason.
Weird you're right. Even reading you repeating yourself it was like the word matter was blurred out for me 'I prefer to view a ladder' was what I read when I read it too fast but many times…
It seems we are just disagreeing with what demiurge means. If it's not the thing that autonomously propagates physicality then what is it
Lets uncover how does it work.
(I always used term "Vril" instead of "loosh". Its more canonical and has a clear potency to the word. Masculine sexual energy. "Vril" gets me to images of flying vimannas and electricity, or a straight punch to a fat and loud face. lol. Life Force! As for loosh .. it seems more effeminate. well, question of preferences)
You vampire Vril/Loosh when you try to control someone, restrict, or try to affect/influence them. For example, it is mentally painful for me to see when an old bitch screams at little kid or tries to put restrictions "HEEY, COME BACK! WHAT ARE YOU DOING". Darkness tries to swallow light.
Our muslims friend when he spams with quotations - it is also a loosh-farming in some way? That guy being a medium of some entity he calls Allah. On his behalf tries to teach the ways of truth. Note: not to creatively engage in truth seeking, just straight read-the-book. If you are I-know-it-all then you are most probably dead. Because as time goes it needs to be conceptualized anew.
when you get attention - those who watch upon you - they share teirs Vril with you, right? Public politicians, theater actors they all serve as 'vampires'.
as for generation of this life-force we need to engage in a creative activity. Sing, chant, meditate, paint, compose, or, as in our case, creatively discuss something. We either way are sending our life-force to an archontic entity (when we quarrel) or we generate life-force when we creatively discuss in a friendly manner.
>to an actual deity in the canaanite religion.
>moloch is then condemned in the old testament.
Still it is not saying much. what are his.. specifications? as I see it is as a vampiric thought-form that feeds on 'its' flock (though fear or promises) and gives harvested energy to the priest who designed/activated thought-form.
in that sense we can equate Moloch, Baal, Yehowah and Allah. What do they have in common? - they give you 'teaching' that you should blindly obey. there are people (priests) who know-it-all-better and you have to listen to them. Archetype of the pyramid: priest activates a diety and installs it in goyim. Then he uses goyim to harvest energy. Yeah, some of the goyim might feel they are in touch with divinity, they drink from the heavenly source. But still it is not what seeker/Gnostic would want, right?
>It seems we are just disagreeing with what demiurge means
I don't have any claims as to what Demiurge is or is not, I don't use the term and I have a completely different view on these matters. Demiurge wasn't the point of my posts. Me and the Gnostic anon were discussing the "Mother Goddess" and I just presented the view of Maya from Tantrik perspective.
Also, I kinda explained it already in other posts in this thread
>My view, as you might imagine, was mostly influenced by Eastern systems and there you don't have any Demiurge, only Goddess and Her play.
>For me this world of illusions is still Goddess and is still "holy"
>I don't think that you can find a direct parallel of Demiurge in the Eastern systems. There are hardly any concepts that can be such translated.
etc.
It seemed that some of the post was referring to demiurge as the god in the abrahamic religions, a toxic godform as you call it. You sure say "IHVH (or Demiurge, it's the same thing)" but I don't still quite get what you mean
oh and btw what caused me to go on and on about the physical realm is how you said 'because as matter is not inherently evil, the enslavement of the human spirit is.' but now I have no idea what you meant by enslavement now
>but now I have no idea what you meant by enslavement now
Hiding of occult knowledge and general indoctrination of people.
that goes for all organized religion. all religions can be abused by someone in power to indoctrinate society. For a nonabrahamic example look at hinduism in india, or the monarchy in japan. I'm sure it's happened everywhere
>I'm sure it's happened everywhere
True, but in my opinion, it's more prevalent in Abrahamic ones, maybe because I was raised in Christian culture so I know it from the first hand. The original faith and culture of my people is non-existent now.
Christians destroy whole cultures, Muslims do too, Jews also. Exoteric Hinduism is indoctrinating as well, but at least to my knowledge it isn't as harmful, especially that in Hinduism you have many Deities, in Abrahamic ones you have only one and their modus operandi is too destroy all records and all knowledge regarding other cultures so that only theirs can prevail. Hindu never had this drive to spread their religion.
I would say that it's some ill intentioned people that subvert the religion. There are good qualities in perhaps every religion as they all strive to discover the truth. As you say the original faith of your people is nonexistent but I believe it can be rediscovered with enough investigation. from my own research the closest thing to the original christianity are the coptics though even they are quite removed from it. anyways we are free to do as we will but try not to have a limited belief. I would recommend researching neoplatonism and gnosticism as I think it's the most logical explanations of macroscopic/universal phenomenon. the eastern philosophies help to understand the personal phenomenon of consciousness though it didn't really feel a satisfactory explanation of how and why the universe (should) exist. the conclusion of both kinds of study are nevertheless found in all religions it seems, or rather parallels of it
>I would recommend researching neoplatonism and gnosticism
Why do you think that I didn't? Even read a chunk of Nag Hammadi scrolls, as I already mentioned.
>As you say the original faith of your people is nonexistent but I believe it can be rediscovered with enough investigation
My people were pagan and didn't left any written materials, so it's not very likely. I plan on channeling some information though from the God of knowledge of theirs.
>from my own research the closest thing to the original christianity are the coptics
Your situation is very different as original Christians left their writings (such as mentioned Nag Hammadi library) and other materials while pagans did not. At least not all of them.
>I would say that it's some ill intentioned people that subvert the religion
Original Christianity was a spiritual revolution against IHVH and Judaism, nevertheless it reinforced it's agenda after all. That's what I meant with IHVH = Demiurge and all that stuff. Basically Gnostics thought that the Demiurge is the God of the Old Testament and that he is evil, while their true God is Logos, but the movement was subverted and eventually what the Gnostics taught about Logos was merged with the IHVH in the New Testament, about the same time that their true writings were burned and hidden away.
>I think it's the most logical explanations of macroscopic/universal phenomenon
>the eastern philosophies help to understand the personal phenomenon of consciousness
"Eastern philosophies" is a very broad term. Too broad, as it includes under one moniker hundreds of systems that are often with disagreement with one another. What specific philosophy were you thinking about?
Also, all those philosophies have their own complex sciences connected with both universal and personal phenomena. Tantra for example has some great explanations of macrocosmos too, although it ultimately links it to the microcosmos and man, in accord with non-dual philosophy (think - "as above so below").
I'm not christain lol I'm muslim. Though I do want to learn hebrew as well as sanskrit and the rest. even the gita has been incredibly interesting from what I've read
I would say that even Judiasm was subverted and that the original torah is now lost or something. Christianity was an attempt to fix the subversion and also to reveal the messiah, and Islam was the fix to the subversion, this time with a guarantee. That's actually the basics of it, and I would agree. Though none of that matters and the ideologies of before make perfect sense on their own.
I haven't done a full study of any eastern philosophy yet though it seems Buddhism has a very well done explanation of consciousness and the mindstream and chakras and etc though their descriptions of the realms and heavens didn't seem anything special to me, after having read the kyabalion it seemed pretty much the same except a little convoluted.
anyways this now has nothing to do with the thread so let's talk about it in a new thread I made, I couldn't find any old thread that would be relevant
you say you adhere to Shaktism? What is the creation story or explanation for why the universe exists according to that? And/or post anything else you want. I will post about neoplatonism after cleaning my room and then after learning about the Nag Hammadi scrolls since you brought them up. Did they mention the Nous, Logos, Demiurge, Sophia anything like that?
> That's what I meant with IHVH = Demiurge and all that stuff.
but isn't IHVH - the four elements = our nature. So the demiurge is just nature. It is beyond good and bad. Its just is.
But there is the (Judaic?) priesthood who subverts nature and create vampiric system
>If this is the result of your "esoteric knowledge", then what can you tell me?
Curiosity is not pride.
Arrogance is not compassion.
>on things your book cannot explain
>Oh, please, elaborate.
Your holy book speak of demons, ifrits, jinns, angels, spirits and minions of the lord but you have never seen these things. Because of your ignorance to the dark unknown forces, you've fallen victim for it at this very moment.
Can the book explain the quantum slit experiment? Can the book explain the planets' influence on man, physically as well as metaphysically? Can the book explain ego, demons, thoughtforms and tulpas?
>>your "ignorant" religion
>"ignorant"? What do you mean by this? Why is ignorant in between quotation marks?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_quotes
I do not find a religion ignorant but others do.
>>their eyes set further forward than simple submission.
>You have no vision, no in-sight.
>The blind led by the blind…are you the leader?
Reading a book is not vision. Listening to imams is not vision. A vision as a concept of an idea of the future, is not "the vision". The vision is when you can see the spirits and demons on a level playing ground, say to them in their face: "I see you".
>You really think I am as full of myself as you or these others may be? To think angels would come to me or you or any of us? Please, who drinks this dribble that comes out of your mouth? I feel sorry for you and whoever takes you seriously.
Jehovas Witnesses said the same thing to me once. "God made the bible so that we don't have to talk to angels ever again". Because: "For whoever comes after Jesus to say that they are bearers of God's will, will all be tricksters and demons".
In your mind you can't comprehend the very idea that angels actually do want to communicate with humans, perhaps now more than ever before. You think that you are not worthy of their attention? Then so be it, you won't ever talk to one.
>My man, you are in a severe state of self-admiration and delusion.
Now we're at the lowest level of discussion.
>This made me laugh. Please, do not project your schizophrenic mental state on me or anyone else.
The very idea that you have to tell anyone that you are laughing shows what shallow understanding you have off spiritual philosophies. Do you see this as a fight where there are spectators and they are now rooting for you to win? Do you have delusions about your deity granting you material wealth and fame for fighting an equal online?
Your utopian idea of paradise will come when everyone on Earth is a Muslim. The Jews believe the messiah will return when everyone on Earth is a Jew. The Jehovas Witness believes paradise will come when everyone is a JW. Meanwhile, actual rational, scientific and sound moral people are trying to build utopia using the scientific method, regardless of what religion people believe in. But these 3 categories of people will always "fight" each other, so there won't be a paradise until one has conquered the other.
You are welcome to learn anything you want to learn. But respect is mutual.
>Can the book explain the quantum slit experiment? Can the book explain the planets' influence on man, physically as well as metaphysically? Can the book explain ego, demons, thoughtforms and tulpas?
Allah is pure consciousness and it influences everything through the Nous -> Logos -> Demiurge. Islamic Neoplatonism was a thing, though I can't find any discourse on it
ego is nafs, thought forms tulpas and etc is jinn. There is some esotricism to explain the distinction between angels, entities and humans, maybe I will explain later. I don't know about planets but probably.
do YOU understand the double slit experiment? I would love to talk aout quantum mechanics
true understanding as you say vision, is called ijtihad in Islam, while listening to imams is taqlid and ironically is forbidden in the quran!!!!
even according to traditional beliefs in islam it's very well possible to talk to angels, just that one can never be sure of it
You got that from reading Montalk's stuff right? If not then do tell where?
>So the demiurge is just nature. It is beyond good and bad. Its just is.
YHVH is an entity, as every Deity is. What you are talking about is more like a philosophy connected to the symbolism of given entity, nevertheless the entity exists as a ultra powerful thoughtform (Godform).
I'd say it exists by itself and needs no one's approval.
A place for souls which functions as a school. So, I'd say we allow for it to exist by collectively thoughtforming it in it's current shape and form, although that's only a part of the situation imho.
On the other hand I'd say that Devi allows for Maya to exist (but also She, partially, is Maya or rather Maya is Her) and again - it exists because our minds are dual and can't directly perceive the non-duality of the universe but that's rather a question of who created it and it's my personal belief.
Physical realm exists because it has to, because there is a need for it.
I believe I already answered that (kinda)
>who would you say is in charge of allowing physicality to exist?
>that doesn't really explain why or how
Oh shit, you're right.
As to why and how -
why
>Physical realm exists because it has to, because there is a need for it.
Not everyone is ready to leave physicality, as I already said.
If you want to know the exact reason why, I can't say why. Why the All exists? What is the reason behind any creation? Why any other realms apart from physical exist?
how
>we allow for it to exist by collectively thoughtforming it in it's current shape and form
>our minds are dual and can't directly perceive the non-duality of the universe
Again, I really can't answer specifically how anything exist. How do you exist? You just do.
Maybe if I was well versed in theoretical matters I could come up with some philosophical answer, but I confess that I was never much interested in it (well, I was and still am but not primarily interested in it), I prefer to do things rather than ponder about whys and hows of this world. Even in the field of study I know about the most and post about the most - there are many deeply philosophical Tantrik texts regarding the creation, preservation and dissolution of the universe, mystical teachings and explanations and I read them (at least some of them). If something specifically caught my interest then I spent a bit more time on it, doing research and thinking myself, but ultimately I went on this journey for practical reasons and by practical means. The explanations I provided (with physicality being Maya and being a part of Devi) suffice to me. For the moment at least.
Maybe if the question was more specific I could come up with a better answer, but it's literally a question about everything. About everything physical at least, but if you expect me to answer how and why it exists then you expect me to know the reasons and logic of some Being that is incomparably more powerful than me. I'm kinda flattered, but I can't.
From some other perspective (I'd call it Hermetic, but I only know Hermeticism from works of WWA and Bardon, so there's that) it's like questioning why the All creates… well the all. Of course we are not talking about all of creation as only about physicality, nevertheless the All creates it too. If there is some desire leading the All to creation it ceases to be the All as it would imply that the All was doing it in order to obtain fulfillment of the desire, but then it wouldn't be the All. That's why I called Maya a play of Devi. A spontaneous play, without any reward nor desire for it's effects. She just creates, the world just exists. Although it exists in it's current form because we perceive it as such IMHO. How am I to judge the motives of Devi?
Well if you'd ask me everything is like god having a dream that he chose to have and forgot. A perfect being can't experience learning or growth so it has to stop being perfect. Of course having this realization made it stop being god, and that goes for having any thoughts; so this must have been the first thought leading to the first division of the all.
There is physicality because there's a lot more to learn for consciousness while it's limited by physicality. If life was like a lucid dream then it would just be kind of silly, not to mention the higher dimensions need a basis for experience to expand on.
On the other hand physicality can't be entirely material or only the most selfish would win. There needs to be a sort of connection to everything else based on something like emotion to encourage unity and such allowing good experiences for all. Thus influence from the mental realm is required.
This is why it makes sense to have an autonomous process in charge of physicality, which is what's called the demiurge.
I mean it all makes sense to me, if you say that the demiurge is just an entity then at the same time can't explain why there is physicality then you should not say that in the first place. If someone says there is something in charge of physicality your alternative is pointless unless it offers the same level of logic or more
On that note, what I've said it seems is implied or explicitly stated in many religions/philosophies. I've definitely read something like that in some hindu texts though I can't remember. 'All is one' is the most objective statement you can make with it's infinite meaning
If we were not part of the illusion, we would not exist and be able to have experience which is the whole point of it all. Joining back with god is the destination, but the point is the journey not the destination
I agree with most of what you wrote, but on the other hand
>A perfect being can't experience learning or growth
That implies a desire to learn and experience, and any desire for something indicates that it's not really the All as it strives for something It doesn't have. But on the other hand I like this explanation.
Personally I just don't feel like wondering about the motives of the All leads anywhere.
>if you say that the demiurge is just an entity then at the same time can't explain why there is physicality
No, I said that there is such an entity as IHVH, the entity which Abrahamic religions worship.
The view that this entity called Demiurge created physicality to entrap us in matter is alien to me. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just a certain world view and I have a different one.
For all intents and purpose Demiurge (as viewed by Gnostics) equals IHVH, because both entities are portrayed as such, but I don't follow this portrayal. What I mean is that there are many ways to look at it and I just used that terminology for the sake of the discussion at hand and not because I use it myself. If it sounds convoluted - it does so also to me, as at one moment I'm speaking from purely theoretical and distanced perspective and at the other I'm speaking of things I actually use in my world view.
>the same level of logic or more
So what is your logical explanation for why the Demiurge created the physical world? Are we even talking about the same thing? Gnostics, Logos, Sophia, Demiurge?
>This is why it makes sense to have an autonomous process in charge of physicality, which is what's called the demiurge.
Oh, sorry, wrote before I read that part. Yeah, so if you call it a process in charge of physicality then it's alright I guess.
>I've definitely read something like that in some hindu texts though I can't remember.
Yeah, about Brahman I guess.
>physicality is an illusion or Maya
Maya is not an illusion, although it is commonly referred to as such and I often do refer to it as such as well because it's a more common concept, but I prefer to view it as a veil, separating us from the supreme reality. Nevertheless this physical world exists. Every part of the All is real. Maya is just a play of the Goddess, She is real and so is Her play. Although that is Tantrik view, which disagrees with Vedantic one.
As I wrote before regarding Aghora, which is a sect of Shiva worshipers:
>Shiva is perfect (having omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence) and that Shiva is responsible for everything that occurs – all conditions, causes and effects. Consequently, everything that exists must be perfect and to deny the perfection of anything would be to deny the sacredness of all life in its full manifestation, as well as to deny the Supreme Being.
I feel the same way about Shakti.
>all separation is an illusion
>existence is an illusion
That depends how you define illusion, your definition is as good as anyones.
>You have this big paragraph but never even explain what this "Devi" is.
Devi literary means just Goddess. It's like the All, if you want to think that way. Of course at least to a Shakta it is. It is an active principle of creation, while Shiva is passive, transcendental basis. Devi is also of the Nature of the Absolute Brahman and is the source of the emanations of all the other Goddesses. She is also called Durga, Kali, Adi Parashakti, Shakti etc.
>Kali is none other than Brahman. That which is called Brahman is really Kali. She is the Primal Energy. When that Energy remains inactive, I call It Brahman, and when It creates, preserves, or destroys, I call It Shakti or Kali. What you call Brahman I call Kali. Brahman and Kali are not different. They are like fire and its power to burn: if one thinks of fire one must think of its power to burn. If one recognizes Kali one must also recognize Brahman; again, if one recognizes Brahman one must recognize Kali. Brahman and Its Power are identical. It is Brahman whom I address as Shakti or Kali.
Shakti is dynamic Brahman and Brahman is static Shakti.
I like how this thread became a crucible of new threads.
>The view that this entity called Demiurge created physicality to entrap us in matter is alien to me.
Well I don't think like that and haven't really met anyone either, if they do I would say they don't really understand what they are talking about
It's more of a meme really, the idea is that the autonomous process got corrupted or hijacked by some negative things. But inherently it's just a neutral thing fulfilling a need kind of like what you said. I read about the demiurge from the neoplatonists and philosophies of aristotle. Gnosticism is just supplemental; actually the term was kind of ruined by them since gnosis simply means truth. The information of gnosis as a verb in terms of inducing a trance state in meditation is quite interesting though
I mean you're making sense now acutally, just that I can't say anything about IHVH since I'm too ignorant about that, the kabbalah and esoteric judaism is also interesting though. The jews themselves obviously don't think their god is evil, so well, who does think IHVH is evil again? People critical of it but one would need to understand both perspectives for the whole picture
The Highest spiritual source is Nous and from it's archetypes comes the Logos. The Logos is the highest intellect operating from the archetypes. It creates the universe indirectly.
the same way you have an equation and put it in a graphing calculator, The Logos puts in "equations" or energies and such and puts it into the demiurge. The demiurge is just a calculator, a graphing utility to directly create the universe. It has no mind of it's own.
There are more nuances between Logos and Sophia but I would consider them to essentially be the same, with Sophia being more emotional and higher than logos.
Ah, I wrote before I read too. Well might as well post that
As for what you said, it's not easy for me to grasp it right now. I'll think deeply about it later, maybe read up on some background info too. And I'll probably post in the other thread.
Because, just maybe, there's someone that wants to talk about Isis/Ishtar. Could be interesting, there's already some discussion that's kind of buried let's not bury it more
>about Isis/Ishtar. the Queen of Heaven/Lady of the Veil
>Mother and child worship
Maria + Jesus
Ishtar + Tammuz
Nirmod + Semiramis
>The system of worship has its origin in the legend of Nimrod and his wife Semiramus. Nimrod (the great-grandson of Noah) rebelled against God, like his father Cush. Eventually Nimrod was put to death for his evil deeds, and according to the ancient patriarchal system, parts of his body were sent to various cities as a warning.
>His wife Semiramus fled, but spread the rumour that he had ascended to heaven, where he had become one with the sun. When Semiramis later gave birth to a son, she claimed that it was the reincarnation of her deified husband, and that he had returned to save the human race.
>She was later deified as the mother of the sun god, and it was supposed she had ascended into heaven as the queen of heaven. In the various cultures throughout history and around the world, the same basic deities have been worshipped under different names.
Ishtar/Semiramis is the bride of Sun. But at the same time its Mother.
>biblelineministries.org/articles/basearch.php3?action=full&mainkey=easter+is+the+mother+of+baal
> Baal was the Sun-god, the life-giving one, identical with Tammuz.
Jesus is the (blinding) Sun. The Moon (man, can't you see?) is John the Baptist, Hermes, Thoth, Zoroaster, Mani. Teacher of wisdom. While sun-worship is about blinding-light (to Know). You can't look at the Sun. Moon is about cool light (to understand).
Sun = Easter/Summer. Moon = Winter (is coming).
Not sure what I am at. But.. do you feel it? If so share what do you think.
Seems like she is one of the stronger deities these days, what with having her own terrorist group and all.
