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Esoteric Wizardry

Seeker 2016-08-15 09:07:11 No.5600 >>5692 >>5687 >>5681 >>5679 >>5663 >>5659 >>5620 >>5822 >>6145 >>6146 >>6229

Good day, dear /fringe/.

For a long time I am interested in this topic and have become aware of several people who deal with it.

These include, in my view Michael Tellinger, Graham Hancock, Lloyd Pye, Zecharia Sitchin, Erich von Däniken, Klaus Dona and Michael Cremo.

If I understood the works of these men properly, it is believed that many years ago (~ 500,000) a, shall we say, other race names Anu or Anunnaki visited Earth to search for gold.

Since this activity was difficult to achieve on their own, they needed some kind of working class.

They knew that there is on earth a certain animal (in this case, Homo habilis), that they can genetically change and thus became the first human being(s).

This was done according to the testimony of these researchers in the African continent.

If I am permitted, I would like to share a few videos that I personally find interesting and informative, if someone is interested in this topic.

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Hidden History: Michael Tellinger's presentation of the annunaki and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8OkiVWJQoE

Michael Tellinger: Connecting the Dots - The Great Human Puzzle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZ9dZdnk90

'Magicians of the Gods', snapshots of a work in progress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcPgIphDWGY

Lloyd Pye - Everything You Know Is Wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE

Lloyd Pye on Human Origins, Anunnaki and Nibiru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzO4iRiobw

Zecharia Sitchin - Sumerians & The Anunnaki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RkHJQF1I1w

The Ancient Aliens Theory Explained By Erich Von Daniken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULy5Jaqm4nI

Klaus Dona: The Hidden History of the Human Race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmMwo1Xzgus

Michael Cremo the "Forbidden Archeologist" on human antiquity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy30tXaNdWE

Anunnaki Secret History on Earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsEUYkh2Gpg

Royal Red Headed Elongated Skull Family Of Paracas Peru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO5dA4TEMtU

Enormous Amazing Cone Head Skulls Of Paracas Peru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRd6pYGJpm4

Annunaki AlienHuman Hybrids Or a Lost Human Species?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyqlUiXHHJY

Strange Elongated Skulls Of Peru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtpa0Q_qhew

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

Information and books of these men can be found on various websites on the Internet.

I am writing this message because I'm interested in opinions of other people and I would like to learn something new.

What do you think about this theory?

Is something truth behind this, or absolute nonsense?

I apologize profusely for my poor english skills and would be glad about helpful answers.

Thanks in advance.

Seeker 2016-08-15 19:23:27 No.5620

>>5600

While I believe all human races existed simultaneously and some have since become extinct, I will take a look at the vids when I have time, to see what this is about.

I used to be strongly into evolution theory and at the same time christian, I never saw any conflict between this. I even had dreams that may be described as religious with an evolutionary perspective.

Maybe I should add it was the social darwinism I had a hard time arguing against, I still can't really see a problem with it on that scale. But my general belief in evolution ended after I had a certain dream in which I walked in a prehistoric landscape searching for the source of it all. I saw many now dead plants and there were fossils on the ground.

I reached a stone altar covered in blood, and there was the statue of a crocodile on it. The image remained with me strongly and was the answer I needed.

Seeker 2016-08-15 23:37:46 No.5633

Check out the wes penre papers

http://wespenre.com/index-level-one-to-level-five.htm

Seeker 2016-08-16 00:02:21 No.5634

>aliens literally from another planet

Seeker 2016-08-16 17:22:40 No.5659 >>5715

>>5600

>Klaus Dona: The Hidden History of the Human Race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmMwo1Xzgus

https://archyfantasies.com/2013/12/12/the-genetic-disk/

Conclusion: Klaus Dona is a fraud

1 video watched; 1 video debunked

Why didn't you at least to basic research before dumping this garbage here you asshole

ps I already know Sitchin is full of shit, as there are peer reviewed articles about it

Seeker 2016-08-16 18:02:49 No.5663 >>5715

>>5600

>Michael Tellinger: Connecting the Dots - The Great Human Puzzle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZ9dZdnk90

a quote:

>if you pass a lazer through the fertilized egg of a frog and into an unfertilized lizard egg, then the egg becomes a ferilized frog egg

I went to google scholar: nothing

two videos watched; two videos debunked

I hope you get hit by a mac truck

Seeker 2016-08-16 19:38:24 No.5679 >>5715

>>5600

>Michael Cremo the "Forbidden Archeologist" on human antiquity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy30tXaNdWE

wew lad

>scientists often ignore anomalous findings when it doesn't fit within the 'paradigm'

true. Most layman don't know this, but it actually happens all the time even in the natural sciences. Read: Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (or Lakatos)

>there are some anomalous readings concerning some human artifacts

okay, true…

>the military has experimented with the possibility of the paranormal

oh yes, the military will fund literally anything if it even has the remotest possibility of working

>therefore humans have been on earth for billions of years, aliens created them, telepathy is real, etc etc

NO YOU FUCK THAT'S NOT HOW SCIENCE WORKS

3 videos watched; 3 debunked

After you get hit by the mac truck I hope you live in absolute misery for some good deal of time before dying

Seeker 2016-08-16 19:54:18 No.5681 >>5715 >>5829

>>5600

>Royal Red Headed Elongated Skull Family Of Paracas Peru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO5dA4TEMtU

>Enormous Amazing Cone Head Skulls Of Paracas Peru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRd6pYGJpm4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

>cranial deformation is a well-known and well-documented practice in the ancient world

5 videos; 5 debunked

seriously kys and let's get this over with. your existence is a detriment to humankind.

Seeker 2016-08-16 22:10:40 No.5687 >>5715

>>5600

>'Magicians of the Gods', snapshots of a work in progress: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcPgIphDWGY

this one is okay. Graham Hancock isn't bad at all

Seeker 2016-08-17 00:49:48 No.5692 >>5715

>>5600

>Lloyd Pye - Everything You Know Is Wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe6DN1OoxjE

>Lloyd Pye on Human Origins, Anunnaki and Nibiru: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzO4iRiobw

This dipshit is such a retarded fuck that he doesn't even understand how (and why) punctuated equilibrium evolution works. Its actually very, very simple and understandable. This man should be shot forthwith

Seeker 2016-08-17 10:22:32 No.5715 >>5837

>>5659

>>5663

>>5679

>>5681

>>5687

>>5692

You're doing God's work anon-kun. I cringe that some people think that just because we live in a magical universe the logic and critical thinking don't apply.

It's either people are 100% atheist fedoras or 100% batshit crazy tinfoilers.

Love ya.

Seeker 2016-08-19 18:33:44 No.5822

>>5600

Wow, that pic of a life tree actually looks like real DNA at the molecular level inside cells, The resemblance to a rounded end of a chromosome's leg is uncanny. The 'vine' of DNA really is wrapped around protein nodules like those flowers and their bulb roots.

Seeker 2016-08-19 21:31:36 No.5829 >>5837 >>5845 >>5849 >>5851

>>5681

> cranial deformation is a well-known and well-documented practice in the ancient world

Yes, and they could have been emulating someone. Humans have three plates in their skull. It is claimed that some elongated skulls have only one such fusion, hence being due to at least a genetic deformity (or maximally a different [sub]species), rather than merely headbinding.

> 5 videos; 5 debunked

Not so fast on this one. Head binding does not change the volume of the resultant skull shape, it's squeezed and formed into a shape. Archaeologists uncovered pattern of conical skulls with larger overall volume. Point being that if those skulls shapes were due to head binding, and they were left unbound then they would still be significantly larger in volume than the human norm – enough so to be classified at the least as sub species.

So, consider that there may be two types of conical skulls, the one rooted in a genetic dissimilarity, and head binding done to emulate their appearance.

Also, "peer reviewed" doesn't mean shit today because scientific journals are censored by ideologues, even 60minutes did a segment on ideological feminism suppressing the science of gender differences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFYfZg1jsJU

So, the fact that you find nothing from the propaganda laden censor happy establishment sources does not mean the information isn't true or does not exist. Don't rely on your enemies to tell you the truth. The way occult knowledge stays occulted (hidden) is by suppressing its spread by a myriad of means.

Humanity may not be billions of years old, but civilization surely existed long before the "accepted" archaeological establishment says as only being 5000 years old, as demonstrated by new findings such as Gobekli Tepe, or the similarities in large stone building practices around the world similar to those in Egypt (indicating sea faring and trade of at least information was rampant), megalithic structures off the coast of India and Japan indicate civilization being around before the last ice age ended, sinking the ruins.

There are many "respected" archaeologists in Egypt so why isn't the truth known? It erodes Egypt's claim to their land. Egyptology scholars will lose their jobs if they admit that ancestors of modern Egyptians did not erect the great pyramid of Giza as a tomb in the ridiculous 20 year span.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKahraBiBY

Good luck debunking this one, even the BBC is being forced to acknowledge the accepted history of Egypt blatantly false… King Tut having been found to have European markers in his DNA might have something to do with their renewed revisionism…

Similarly, China suppresses investigation of the over two dozen pyramids dotted about it because it overturns their established narrative that the Chinese people emerged in isolation and invented everything they had themselves. There are also red haired mummies buried in China (European DNA).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKdKj7o-ZjM

And ancient Chinese legend speaks of Sun Gods who ruled them, similar to Egyptian stories… Chinese writing is ideographic, early writing was hieroglyphic like Egypt's… Today Chinese people still believe the dead need items from this world in the afterlife, and they build paper cars, houses, print cash for the dead… similar to Ancient Egyptian burial practices.

Rather than allow archaeologists to scan or dig at pyramids in China, the Chinese pay farmers to grow lumber and other crops atop the pyramid mounds to blur their shape so they can deny their very existence in the near future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzHv8raNM60

So, here we have two very clear examples of governments officially cocking up a significant portion of the accepted origin story of humanity; And a 3rd example of idealogical censors actively corrupting scientific journals.

Unrelated, but this fits in with other trends, such as the blatant ignorance that light follows the same optical principals in space as it does here on earth. For example, light in space could refract as it passes into a massive hydrogen envelope of a star or galaxy. And indeed, the "Einstein rings" which are given as proof of "gravitational lensing" are all shifted to the blue end of the spectra – like a prism or lens might. However, gravitational lensing should not cause any refraction – it should bend light without shifting its spectra. If you even try to investigate sources of non-cosmological redshift (redshift that is not due to distance, such as in quasars) then you are drummed out of the Astronomy field, denied time on telescopes, have funding canceled, and may have your tenure revoked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK6zHysxoCo

Any bending of light in space that's not due to gravity is ignored, and any spectra shift not due to expansion (such as simple refraction) is completely censored out by the "peer reviewed" establishment academia sources. So, it's asinine to hold peer reviewed works in higher regard than any other researcher, as you've done.

But, as you say:

> NO YOU FUCK THAT'S NOT HOW SCIENCE WORKS

Indeed. That's not very "scientific", eh? The whole point of Tenure is so that unpopular theories can be explored against the accepted paradigm, but exercising this in practice proves to be difficult if not impossible.

In other words, I think you're at risk of not thinking critically enough. It's blatantly clear that everything, from history to medical research to space research is full of purposeful misdirection and falsehood. It's a waste of time NOT to question our origins and trust "scientific academia" to be the gatekeepers of what is legitimate.

I'm not jumping to conclusions saying humans were created by aliens by manipulating DNA a million years ago, but it's very clear that our origins are unclear and quite different than what you'll read in a school book.

There are structures far older than archeology is letting on.

Heres' a neat channel if you actually care to do some research beyond the mental prison that is academia:

http://megaliths.org/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqLPTe6eEeBP10Zhu5p-0cQ

They're having a trip to investigate megaliths themselves, first hand, without the filter of others.

My point is that there really is reason to question the origin of humanity which established sources proselytize.

Take everything with a grain of salt. Some people jump to absurd conclusions in order to shield themselves from attack, remaining a "nutjob". Beware that propagandists also use this method to discredit a field of research. They start with a premise like "NASA is falsifying information" (of course they do http://sli.mg/a/wH1hsr), then jump to "They're hiding little green men on the moon!" Ignore the outlandish claims, and consider each proposition separately. No volume of scientific inquiry will be 100% true. Thus it is folly to disregard the entirety of the evidence presented simply because the hypothesis is wrong. In that case one should filter out the wrong, and keep the good solid evidence, then make one's own determination.

It's not a "huge waste of time", to investigate, there is hidden truth to be found, but let me caution that this very statement is often posted by shills in order to dissuade people from investigating for them selves. They then claim the resource is absurd and provide short and misleading quips to disinform and deflect, focusing on a minute or particular mistake and then saying this discredits the entire body of info. Shills also like to use "argument from authority" fallacies, such as, "peer reviewed experts said this was bullshit" (did you look into who's paying these peer reviewers or consider that the peer review process is outright fucked and corrupt, as evidenced by the fact that MOST scientific papers published by so called peer review process CAN NOT BE REPLICATED: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis – so, value the "experts" above all else at your peril)

You may also want to read:

https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

Not saying you're a shill, just that you should try not to act like a forum spy.

Because threads like these attract shills. Anywhere truth is at risk of being uncovered the agents of the powers that be attempt to throw up a smoke screen, and frequently employ those tactics.

All scientists start with the premise that everything they know is wrong – how wrong it is varies. In the case of human history, the mainstream narrative is full of blatant lies, not just accidental untruth.

Seeker 2016-08-19 22:50:52 No.5837 >>5838 >>5839 >>5857

>>5829

>critiquing something is acting like a forum spy

>drools retardly

>don't you realize that civilization might be older than…

I already said Graham Hancock has some points

>some people say some true things, but then say stupid things to protect themselves

yeah, its called signal to noise ratio. Those people I debunked had an ungodly low ratio and that's why they should kill themselves

>elongated skulls have larger cranial capacity therefore

nope, try reading the wiki article I posted

>could have been emulating someone else

Yeah, and your dick could have been glued on when you were 5, but there's no evidence for that. I'm not interested in speculation. kys

>>5715

thanks anon

If you really want to know about magick - real magick (ie. nonsupernatural magick) - then read continental theory. It's all linguistic structuralism, which is basically "memetics" in imageboard terminology. Sociologists call these "scripts," and I think this is what Lacan was talking about when he talks about "fantasy"

Of course, Lacan was a Feudian, which was basically a Jewish cult (another "magick" connection). If you want to move away from that, look at CG Jung (archetypes) and Joseph Campbell's understanding(s) of mythology (The Power of Myth, The Hero with a 1000 Faces, etc)

I am very much interested in the archeological stuff, but the only one I can find that actually has a high signal to noise ratio (eg. facts to sensationalism ratio) is Graham Hancock. I would very much appreciate it if someone else had other sources on this matter that didn't involve too much weird shit.

Also, I understand that some "researchers" use the word "alien" or "interdimensional entities" or whatever as code-words, so if there are any videos like that, then I'd watch them – if they were coherent. But, if I cannot watch it and say, "oh, if by alien he just means like an evolutionarily highly advanced humanoid living at the time when most "humans" were still much less developed" then they can piss off. It could have happened, but there's simply no evidence for it.

If anyone doesn't realize by now that humans have been enslaved for thousands of years (or longer) by other humans (or similar advanced primates) then they really haven't been paying attention. The rampant use of the "pastoral metaphor" in writers like Plato attests to this (as Foucault points out). The difference between your average person's vulgar materialist understanding of this enslavement and the "magickal" understanding of it is the use of Knowledge/Power rather than material incentives (economic rewards, threat of jail, etc) to effectuate this enslavement - pic very much related. The question always is whether the "researcher" is providing novel information or, and most importantly, useful and actionable intelligence.

Mark Passio is hit-and-miss imho. I've seen some really good videos, but a lot of ones that are just garbage nonsense mostly. Again, most of the information in the good videos can be easily found in important texts in Continental Philosophy, though in a much more difficult to discern format (eg. jargon-filled, etc).

If /fringe/ really wanted to into magick, then they'd have a Continental Theory reading thread where they read major texts and then discuss them. All the meditation stuff is important but too many people get fooled into thinking they are going to literally fart lighteningbolts out their asses, rather than understanding that its simply a way of centering yourself so as to be able to control your affect in the face of another "wizard," since much of the (completely explainable psychological) "magickal" manipulation of others depends on being able to screw with people's emotions.

I hope all that makes sense and isn't too disheveled. I just shat that out off the top of my head. Ciao.

Seeker 2016-08-19 22:56:05 No.5838 >>5842

>>5837

We reddit now?

Seeker 2016-08-19 23:15:06 No.5839 >>5842

>>5837

Try looking outside the information that has been filtered heavily like in Wikipedia.

It's clear you haven't done so. Hancock is repeating things many others showed him, and he's only giving part of the picture, presenting the possibility of a single lost civilization as a theory.

In reality, if you actually looked at the archaeological sites around the world with a critical eye you'll realize that there appears to have been many civilizations and more ancient than even Hancock.

> they should kill themselves

Tbh, smh, fam.

You can lead a mind to knowledge but you can't make it think.

Seeker 2016-08-19 23:35:43 No.5842

No arguments - try again. Both of you - pic very related

>>5838

>everyone who disagrees with me is reddit

>>5839

>Try looking outside the information that has been filtered heavily like in Wikipedia

you mean like when I searched academic databases for the information? Notice how you're not really making an argument but simply conjecturing about information that may exist, but instead of providing it, you, like a retard, just throw your hands in the air like you've won.

>there seems to have been many ancient civilizations

I already ceded this point, my low reading comprehension friend. What does this have to do with literal aliens from another planet?

>protip: nothing

>quackademia

You seem to be unable to distinguish between facts and paradigms, that is, information and interpretations of that information. I already told you to familiarize yourself with Kuhn and Lakatos but you seem to have ignored this advice.

smh tbh fam

Seeker 2016-08-20 00:15:20 No.5845 >>5846

>>5829

So, I decided to be less of an edgy fuckwad and try to humor you by trying to engage your wall of text bit by bit. I don't think we disagree as much as you might suspect, though I think you should calm down and think more critically. So…

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKahraBiBY

@5:18

>4000 years ago, when the rest of the world was still walking around in animal skins

but that's not true you fucking retard - not even according to mainstream accounts. The whole first 5 minutes of this video is absolute sensationalist garbage. There are quite a few researchers who have shown how (at least most) of this could have been done. For instance, I've seen videos of people in their backyard aligning something to damn near due North using nothing but a sun dial, a stick, a rope, a marble and knowledge of the movement of celestial bodies. It's actually not that hard if you take the time to do it. Likewise with lifting very heavy blocks, etc. It doesn't take special technology, just a lot of manpower and ingenuity.

The real question is, "how did this information suddenly pop up in Egypt if Egypt was the first civilization ever." This is the question that Graham Hancock (and others) answer sufficiently for me. Even Aquinas points out that the Egyptian Priests of his time claimed to have been developing this knowledge for something like 100k years (though he says that can't be true bc Bible). It's very simple: there were Egypt-like civilizations that existed on what is now the Continental Shelf, but were inundated when the ice caps melted. This would have flooded over 100 miles of primo land, which is where most of the population lived. Even today something like 90% of the world population lives within 200 miles of the Ocean. Think about it.

I'm not even sure what your argument is or what we are disagreeing about at this point. I think perhaps you are the one who hasn't sufficiently looked into "alternative science" - or at least you've fallen for the sensationalistic stuff.

>peer-reviewed doesn't mean anything

yes. yes it does. Sure, the major journals are very "mainstream," I agree. But, there are lots of journals that you've never even heard about where you can find lots of information that you would not imagine could ever get published. It's there, you just have to DIG DIG DIG!

You should spend more time in the library of a major university and less watching jewtube videos by quacks, tbh fam

>modern Egyptians did not erect the great pyramid of Giza as a tomb in the ridiculous 20 year span

again, you're listening to the "mainstream" sources and acting like there aren't dissenting opinions, even in the academe. You really should cool your tits hotshot and actually listen to what I'm telling you.

>China suppresses investigation of the over two dozen pyramids

you're not proving anything here. you're just saying "b-but sometimes stuff is censored." So what? That doesn't prove anything, it just means more research needs to be done. I hope you understand the difference.

>European DNA

yes, and Europeans first settled the New World as well. I know this, man. Before the floods that occurred when the ice caps melted. Graham Hancock goes over some of this. see above

>stuff in physics is censored out

Again, only in the major journals. The information is there, you just have to dig for it. Stop being a lazy faggot.

I stopped reading here bc I'm getting frustrated at your faggotry. Perhaps you could settle down and actually listen to what I'm saying and then we can engage on equal footing. But I want to emphasize…

I think we both could learn something, but not if you're going to sperg out like this.

Seeker 2016-08-20 00:16:45 No.5846

>>5845

Aquinas = Augustine

my bad

Seeker 2016-08-20 01:03:15 No.5849 >>5851

>>5829

I've read cryptome, have you? Perhaps you are the one acting like the forum spy. Two of the most common strategies of the forum spy

>1) scream "shill" or "forum spy" at legitimate seekers of truth (before they can do it to you)

>2) agree and amplify

You've done both of these. First, by calling me a shill and second by linking me to this garbage website: http://megaliths.org/

This website is a proto-typical "agree and amplify" psyop website. They take legitimate magaliths which may be much older than current mainstream scientists claim, and then go nutjob by claiming they had automobiles and magical crystals for levitation or whatever. They could also just be trying to make money by being sensationalistic. idk

I really do wish you'd come back and engage me intellectually, without all the name-calling and sperging. It would be nice. I bet we both could learn something.

that is, if you're not a forum spy yourself

Seeker 2016-08-20 01:10:16 No.5851 >>5852

>>5829

>>5849

>forum-spy

This is how you identify I redditor.

They use terminology not native to the site they are on and are pseudo-intellectuals who think anyone fucking cares about the fee-fees of an anonymous poster.

This fucking thread is disgusting.

Seeker 2016-08-20 02:12:38 No.5852

>>5851

>using the terminology someone else used in order to communicate with them makes you the same as them

This is how you identify a retard.

Seeker 2016-08-20 09:31:07 No.5857 >>5861

>>5837

>thanks anon

np sweetie

>If you really want to know about magick - real magick

I already know about real magic anon so I'm not sure where are you coming from.

>nonsupernatural magick

There is nothing supernatural in the universe as whole universe is natural. What you mean is abnormal perhaps? But then again me and other fringers have already done stuff that can't be explained within current scientific paradigm and thus is "abnormal".

> I would very much appreciate it if someone else had other sources on this matter that didn't involve too much weird shit.

I've read many academic works, mostly about Tantra and ancient Sumer, but then again I was doing it in order to extract from them any mystic techniques so I guess lots of weird shit for you.

>If /fringe/ really wanted to into magick, then they'd have a Continental Theory reading thread

>they'd have a Continental Theory reading thread

>they read major texts and then discuss them

That anon figured all out! It's that simple - just read and discuss text and you can into magic. Unbelievable.

I'm not sure I get what you mean, but you suggest that "magic" is like a psychology roleplay using archetypes and whatnot? Like… magic is only limited to your psyche but you can't use it to influence the world around you?

That's bullshit. The most common definition of magic would be "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will". Change not limited to your mind only, but encompassing everything and anything.

Again, what I wrote and what you misunderstood:

>It's either people are 100% atheist fedoras or 100% batshit crazy tinfoilers.

Guess who are you?

Seeker 2016-08-20 11:01:40 No.5859 >>5861

Seeker 2016-08-20 11:19:46 No.5860 >>5862

Seeker 2016-08-20 11:34:11 No.5861 >>5875 >>5930 >>5932

>>5857

>np sweetie

don't call me sweetie

>I already know about real magic anon

please, enlighten me

>What you mean is abnormal perhaps

paranormal

>me and other fringers have already done stuff

Like what?

>can't be explained

I'm not sure you have the expertise to make that claim, but, either way, do you get consistent results using your technique and is it replicable by others?

>current scientific paradigm

there are many results that "cannot be explained" within the mainstream "scientific paradigm." This is actually quite common, even in the natural sciences. The question is, do you get consistent results with your technique and is it replicatable by others.

>I've read many academic works, mostly about Tantra and ancient Sumer

like what?

>extract from them any mystic techniques

for instance?

>so I guess lots of weird shit for you

poor assumption

>That anon figured all out!

I'm assuming that this is a (very) poor attempt at sarcasm, so I'll just move on.

>I'm not sure I get what you mean

Absolutely you don't! That is abundantly clear!!!

>you suggest that "magic" is like a psychology roleplay using archetypes

I wouldn't use that terminology at all. I could be wrong, but I think my answer is "no." (but maybe sort of) see my answer to the last question

>magic is only limited to your psyche

certainly not only your psyche

>can't use it to influence the world around you

I didn't said that at all, but I also find "the world" to be a terribly ambiguous term, so…. idk

>That's bullshit

your waifu is shit

>The most common definition of magic

Didn't Mark Twain say something like if you find your opinion to be that of the majority, then you should rethink you opinion?

>the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will

Yeah… that's a shit definition. It's not "magick" when I, for instance, bake a cake. Nor is it "magick" when NASA sends a rocket to the Moon. If those are "magick," then your definition is simply to broad, and therefore is completely useless.

>100% fedora atheist

I reject this terminology as not only an ad hominem, but also so extremely poorly defined as to be useless

>100% batshit crazy tinfoilers

I reject this terminology as not only an ad hominem, but also so extremely poorly defined as to be useless

>Guess who are you?

Well, first, I'm the one that speaks proper English. Second, I reject your false dichotomy (which is poorly defined in the first place).

Please try engaging in a clear and rational manner. It will make this conversation less difficult. Thanks.

>>5859

>hey guise look - LOOK - so flat, so smooth ain't it puuuurdy?!?! MUST HAVE BEEN POWER TOOLS HURR DURR DERP!!!

kys faggot

Seeker 2016-08-20 11:58:47 No.5862

>>5860

>"evidence" of "advanced precision cutting technology"

Seeker 2016-08-20 17:40:07 No.5875 >>5893 >>5932

>>5861

>please, enlighten me

The only evidence there can be IMO is through practice and proving things for oneself. It's not scientific, peer-reviewed and all that good stuff and I never claimed it is.

>Like what?

lurk moar

>like what?

like The Alchemical Body: Siddha Traditions in Medieval India by David Gordon White for example

>for instance?

Work on chakras, Kundalini, meditation techniques, details of God and Goddess worship, getting accustomed to certain energies etc.

>Absolutely you don't! That is abundantly clear!!!

I admit that I misunderstood what you mean by magic, but you never really explained it clearly, instead you just implied that none of us knows "real magic" and I'm not going to read some book just for the sake of knowing what some "I'm better than you" poster means. I apologize, I guess.

>certainly not only your psyche

But limited to psyche only nonetheless?

>Didn't Mark Twain say something like if you find your opinion to be that of the majority, then you should rethink you opinion?

I'm still a minority as most people don't even care about magic. Does that make my post more right?

>If those are "magick," then your definition is simply to broad, and therefore is completely useless.

It is broad, but it encompasses also phenomena that undoubtedly are "magick", like changing your body with will only, levitation, divination etc. This definition is so broad, because everything is magic from some point of view, as even by mundane means first comes the world of ideas and then the physical world is reshaped to fit it, but it also shows that nothing is impossible.

>Well, first, I'm the one that speaks proper English.

I don't really care, if you can understand me then it is proper enough for me.

Seeker 2016-08-20 20:22:05 No.5893 >>5901

>>5875

>lurk moar

oh, I've lurked plenty. This is the argument retards use when they want to act like they know something that they really don't know.

>The only evidence there can be IMO is through practice and proving things for oneself

oh, hahaha… I figured you were a Grade-A dipshit. This has nothing to do with "peer-review," per se, but rather everything to with you deluding yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

So, I ask again:

a) what do you think you've done?

b) have you had consistent results with your techniques?

c) are your techniques and results replicable by others?

Even Crowley, whose definition of Magick you used, says you're to keep a notebook of your experiments and results to make sure what you are doing "works." (see appendix) That's the basis of science, and indeed, all knowledge. If you want to deny this, then you need to explain to me your Epistemology. Otherwise, answer the three questions above. thanks

> instead you just implied

perhaps you should stop responding antagonistically to what you think I may have implied and instead ask questions (like "what do you mean by this?) – that's what intelligent, civilized people do, you know.

>"I'm better than you" poster

wew lad, isn't that the coal calling the kettle black!!!!!!!

>psyche

you haven't defined this term

>limited to…

I'm not answering these questions until you answer mine. I'll repeat: what is it that you think you've done? (and do you get consistent results and is it replicable)

>It is broad, but it encompasses also phenomena that undoubtedly are "magick"

That is not a rebuttal to my critique. Please learn to logic

>levitation

so, you believe you've levitated before?

Please do be more concise (and less evasive) on the next post. I'm starting to lose patience.

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

Appendix: This is an citation not an assertion so I am not going to debate the content below this line

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

From RAW Cosmic Trigger I

>Crowley always insisted that nobody should try his more advanced techniques without (a) being in excellent health, (b) being competent in at least one athletic skill, (c) being able to conduct experiments accurately in at least one science, (d) having a general knowledge of several sciences, (e) being able to pass an examination in formal logic and (0 being able to pass an examination in the history of philosophy, including Idealism, Materialism, Rationalism, Spiritualism, Comparative Theology, etc.

I'd like to point out that you talked shit on me for saying you should use scientific methods and for saying you should read Continental Philosophy – and implying that if you didn't understand that, you could understand magick. It seems Crowley and I agree contra you

Seeker 2016-08-20 20:58:32 No.5901 >>5904

>>5893

>This is the argument retards use when they want to act like they know something that they really don't know.

>that's what intelligent, civilized people do, you know.

yeah

>you think I may have implied

>If you really want to know about magick - real magick (ie. nonsupernatural magick) - then read continental theory

>If /fringe/ really wanted to into magick, then they'd have a Continental Theory reading thread

Silly me, no one could've thought that you imply that I, or /fringe/rs generally don't know le real magikz.

>I'm not answering these questions until you answer mine.

Oh, my loss then I guess.

not really

Seeker 2016-08-20 21:13:06 No.5904 >>5930

>>5901

>yeah

not an argument

>no one could've thought that you imply that

also not an argument

>calls me an asshole for saying you cannot understand magick without understanding continental philosophy

>ignores the fact that Crowley said the same thing

wew lad

>calls me an asshole for claiming you should test to see if your results are replicable

>ignores the fact that Crowley said the same thing

i provided the citation as well, you know

>makes claims

>gets pissy when asked to substantiate them

Try again. This time make arguments and stop obfuscating.

Seeker 2016-08-21 08:39:14 No.5930 >>5985

>>5861

> so smooth ain't it puuuurdy?!?! MUST HAVE BEEN POWER TOOLS

Rather, the simpler explanation for the impeccable regularity in striations (tool marks) is that a machine rather than human made the marks. Note that absolutist terms like "must" or "have to" don't enter my lexicon. Rather rational terms such as what is more or less likely are to be considered.

Imagine the plausible explanations for the regular cutting patterns of circular holes made. Surely one of them is that a drill core drill was used. Taken in consideration with the body of other evidence this hypothesis can gain more or less weight.

The rational mind can entertain multiple hypotheses without resulting to absolutism. It has been said the mark of intelligence is the capacity to entertain an idea without adopting it.

>>5904

What if I told you that: Your desire for arguments is lost on some of us?

Instead, of arguing, simply examining and considering information according to one's own filter is acceptable to some.

In other words, it's next to inconsequential whether you "win" an "argument" on the Internet.

In the least this Peruvian example demonstrates striking similarities with examples from Egypt.

Seeker 2016-08-21 09:06:37 No.5932 >>5986 >>5987 >>6106

>>5861

>>5875

It is a noted practice of shills to occupy both sides of an argument, especially one that is severely off topic, has no substance and only serves to attempt a derail of the topic at hand.

> muh, my magic is better than yours.

Note that this has nothing to do with the topic of "origins of mankind"…

Seeker 2016-08-22 05:42:07 No.5985

>>5930

> simpler explanation for the impeccable regularity in striations (tool marks) is that a machine rather than human made the marks

but that's wrong you retard

First of all, all of the presumptions that go into "there were powertools" is much, much more complicated - ABSURDLY SO!!!. Have you even considered how much we'd have to reconsider and how any reasonable person would demand an absolutely huge amount of evidence in order to justify changing all of that???

Second, none of the links you've provided have examined the topic in the most cursory fashion possible, and with substantial sensationalism. Basic standards of inquiry require that you examine the evidence exactly, compare that evidence to other sites, examine alternative hypotheses at length, discuss the possible alternatives and discuss just how much of a paradigm shift accepting they hypothesis would require… and then examine whether there was enough evidence to justify that move. THIS is science, kid, get used to it or get out.

Your videos are literally "hey look grooves, wow can't you imagine how a, like, vehicle or something of that kind could have done that? therefore ancient alien hovercrafts."

you should kill yourself.

ps. like I said I stopped reading at the first line bc you are either a troll or a terribly stupid individual.

Seeker 2016-08-22 06:07:47 No.5986 >>5987

>>5932

thx

Seeker 2016-08-22 06:08:32 No.5987

>>5986

>>5932

oops wrong thread

Seeker 2016-08-26 06:20:28 No.6106

>>5932

most autistic post ITT

Seeker 2016-08-27 06:24:08 No.6145 >>7424

>>5600

The Noble Qur'an, Suratul Baqarah, Aayaah 30-39:

>And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know." And He taught Adam all the names (of everything) , then He showed them to the angels and said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful." They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise." He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?" And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam.". And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah). And We said: "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimun (wrong-doers)." Then the Shaitan (Satan) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time." Then Adam received from his Lord Words . And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful. We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) such are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever.

Seeker 2016-08-27 06:38:19 No.6146 >>6224 >>6229

>>5600

The Noble Qur'an

Suratun Nahl, Aayaah 4:

>He has created man from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge), then behold, this same (man) becomes an open opponent.

Suratul Kahf (18), Aayaah 37:

>"Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you out of dust (i.e. your father Adam), then out of Nutfah (mixed semen drops of male and female discharge), then fashioned you into a man?

Suratul Haj (22), Aayaah 5:

>O mankind! If you are in doubt about the Resurrection, then verily! We have created you (i.e. Adam) from dust, then from a Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge i.e. offspring of Adam), then from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood) then from a little lump of flesh, some formed and some unformed (miscarriage), that We may make (it) clear to you (i.e. to show you Our Power and Ability to do what We will). And We cause whom We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed term, then We bring you out as infants, then (give you growth) that you may reach your age of full strength. And among you there is he who dies (young), and among you there is he who is brought back to the miserable old age, so that he knows nothing after having known. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down water (rain) on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells and puts forth every lovely kind (of growth).

Suratul Mu'minun (23), Aayaah 13-14:

>Thereafter We made him (the offspring of Adam) as a Nutfah (mixed drops of the male and female sexual discharge) (and lodged it) in a safe lodging (womb of the woman). Then We made the Nutfah into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a little lump of flesh, then We made out of that little lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We brought it forth as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators.

Suratus Sajdah (32), Aayaah 8:

>Then He made his offspring from semen of worthless water (male and female sexual discharge).

Surat Fatir (35), Aayaah 11:

>And Allah did create you (Adam) from dust, then from Nutfah (male and female discharge semen drops i.e. Adam's offspring), then He made you pairs (male and female). And no female conceives or gives birth, but with His Knowledge. And no aged man is granted a length of life, nor is a part cut off from his life (or another man's life), but is in a Book (AlLauh AlMahfuz) Surely, that is easy for Allah.

Surat Ya-Sin (36), Aayaah 77:

>Does not man see that We have created him from Nutfah (mixed male and female discharge semen drops). Yet behold! He (stands forth) as an open opponent.

Surat Ghafir (40), Aayaah 67:

>He, it is Who has created you (Adam) from dust, then from a Nutfah [mixed semen drops of male and female discharge (i.e. Adam's offspring)] then from a clot (a piece of coagulated blood), then brings you forth as children, then (makes you grow) to reach the age of full strength, and afterwards to be old (men and women), though some among you die before, and that you reach an appointed term, in order that you may understand.

Suratul Qiyyamah (75), Aayaah 35-40:

>Again, woe to you [O man (disbeliever)]! And then (again) woe to you! Does man think that he will be left Suda [neglected without being punished or rewarded for the obligatory duties enjoined by his Lord (Allah) on him]? Was he not a Nutfah (mixed male and female discharge of semen) poured forth? Then he became an 'Alaqa (a clot); then (Allah) shaped and fashioned (him) in due proportion. And made him in two sexes, male and female. Is not He (Allah Who does that), Able to give life to the dead? (Yes! He is Able to do all things).

Suratul Insan (76), Aayaah 2:

>Verily, We have created man from Nutfah drops of mixed semen (discharge of man and woman), in order to try him, so We made him hearer, seer. Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful.

Surat 'Abasa (80), Aayaah 17-:

>Be cursed (the disbelieving) man! How ungrateful he is! From what thing did He create him? From Nutfah (male and female semen drops) He created him, and then set him in due proportion; Then He makes the Path easy for him; Then He causes him to die, and puts him in his grave; Then, when it is His Will, He will resurrect him (again). Nay, but (man) has not done what He commanded him.

Suratudh Dhariyat (51), Aayaah 56:

>And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).

Seeker 2016-08-29 23:55:02 No.6224 >>6252 >>6253 >>6258

>>6146

Stop spaming with that shit. no one reads it anyway.

>Aayaah

AYYYY TREX, ban this kebab out

Seeker 2016-08-30 00:27:10 No.6229

>>6146

I knew I needed to read the Qur'an.

>>5600

I was expecting something different. This is the accepted theory by anyone with a functioning frontal lobe in 2016.

Only thing to do is rule out obvious hoaxes, new-age false prophets, and discover the actual time frame. Also, more can be figured on how the second sex were created and exactly how inferior they are. From there, it's simply a matter of finishing the job and activating latent DNA.

Seeker 2016-08-30 08:06:20 No.6252 >>6263

>>6224

You are just whining because it clearly tells you that you are in a clear error. Every belief you have that contradicts the Qur'aan is a clear falsehood.

>

Stop spaming with that shit. no one reads it anyway.

Stop crying. It isn't spam when it is addressing the topic specifically. Phony intellectual. You just want your 'aura' stroked. You don't care about actual knowledge. You are just arrogant, and that is a sign of egotripping, which is a sign of your ignorance and lack of understanding.

Seeker 2016-08-30 08:10:05 No.6253

>>6224

>AYYYY TREX, ban this kebab out

All I read is

>Wah wah wah, ban him, his belief in creation doesn't agree with me.

Stop being an emotional wreck

Seeker 2016-08-30 09:10:57 No.6258

>>6224

>no one reads it anyway.

>pic related

Seeker 2016-08-30 11:21:01 No.6263 >>6304

>>6252

>Every belief you have that contradicts the Qur'aan is a clear falsehood.

Well at least your true intentions are clear.

Seeker 2016-08-30 19:12:41 No.6304 >>6306

>>6263

>Well at least your true intentions are clear.

Exactly, like I commented in another post. There is nothing occult about Islam. Everything is crystal clear. Why else would I use the Qur'aan to refute with?

Besides, if you were to read and compare, it only becomes abundantly clear that the Qur'aan trumps all other doctrines, especially this fringe occult nonsense.

Seeker 2016-08-30 19:26:58 No.6306 >>6322 >>6338

>>6304

>Qur'aan trumps all other doctrines, especially this fringe occult nonsense.

And how exactly some purely exoteric system crafted in order to control mindless masses can trump anything, especially the pursuit of esoteric truths?

Just please don't quote your holy book, nobody gives a shit about it.

Seeker 2016-08-30 20:30:34 No.6322 >>7424

>>6306

>Just please don't quote your holy book, nobody gives a shit about it.

You should really learn to speak for yourself, first of all.

Second,

>And how exactly some purely exoteric system crafted in order to control mindless masses can trump anything, especially the pursuit of esoteric truths?

"Exoteric" - (especially of a doctrine or mode of speech) intended for or likely to be understood by the general public.

"Esoteric" - intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

1.

>And how exactly some purely exoteric system crafted in order to control mindless masses

You have never studied anything have you? This is, in itself, to speak esoterically, the statement of an knowledgeable initiate.

>in order to control mindless masses

This only proves that you think laws are unnecessary. And the only people who think like this are detrimental to the whole and or criminals trying to spread corruption.

>especially the pursuit of esoteric truths?

You will never have esoteric truths. They are esoteric because they are not true. They are occult (meaning hidden) because they are used to control individuals or a masses. This is why secret societies work with occult and esoteric knowledge. They control you. Tool. You use these things because the imagery makes you feel "underground" or mysterious. I know. But you are only deluding yourself.

Esotericism is taking the exoteric and trying to interpret it or use it in a way that only is understood by those who make it and teach it. This is a blatant use of falsehood.

The Noble Qur'aan 3:7

>It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.

The Noble Qur'aan 2:79

>Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.

The Noble Qur'aan 2:102

>They followed what the Shayatin (devils) gave out (falsely of the magic) in the lifetime of Sulaiman (Solomon). Sulaiman did not disbelieve, but the Shayatin (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels, Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) till they had said, "We are only for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us)." And from these (angels) people learn that by which they cause separation between man and his wife, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's Leave. And they learn that which harms them and profits them not. And indeed they knew that the buyers of it (magic) would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their ownselves, if they but knew.

Seeker 2016-08-30 21:08:36 No.6338 >>6346

>>6306

>Islam

>exoteric religion

hehe

>Stir not thy tongue herewith to hasten it.

>Lo! upon Us (resteth) the putting together thereof and the reading thereof.

>So when We have recited it [through Gabriel], then follow its recitation.

>Then lo! upon Us (resteth) the explanation thereof.

Seeker 2016-08-30 22:04:40 No.6346

>>6338

The Noble Qur'aan 2:99

>And indeed We have sent down to you manifest Ayat (these Verses of the Quran), and none disbelieve in them but Fasiqun (those who rebel against Allah's Command).

The Noble Qur'aan 3:7

>It is He Who has sent down to you (Muhammad) the Book (this Quran). In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkam (commandments, etc.), Al-Fara'id (obligatory duties) and Al-Hudud (legal laws for the punishment of thieves, adulterers, etc.)]; and others not entirely clear. So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation (from the truth) they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof, seeking Al-Fitnah (polytheism and trials, etc.), and seeking for its hidden meanings, but none knows its hidden meanings save Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole of it (clear and unclear Verses) are from our Lord." And none receive admonition except men of understanding.

Seeker 2016-09-10 10:43:59 No.7540 >>7541

If y'all want to rock the boat a little amd expose oneself to theorys go grab Food of the Gods by terrence mkenna its a small book outlining a theory of evolution in which the missing are Magic Mushrooms.

>>Evolution by mind altering substances

Seeker 2016-09-10 10:44:34 No.7541

>>7540

*The missing link