I've been intrigued by the prospect that the fantasies in my mind's eye could be made more useful. It may even fundamentally alter my being as fantasy takes up the majority of my time without me noticing most times. Often to my detriment.
What are your experiences with thoughtforms? Which have you found most useful? Can they really function autonomously to perform complex tasks without intervention from your conscious mind?
I'm still kind of in doubt because I've lived with fantasy for all my life and it's never responded in such a manner. Though I have been reading about mnemonics and I am surprised by how they really work, so maybe this will work.
Thoughtforms have put the odds in my favour in the past for all kinds of events where I should have lost
I've yet to figure out how to change yourself with these thoughtforms, I guess you just need to charge them a LOT for it to work
>>1893
I figure if a thoughtform is powerful enough, it could continuously stimulate my conscious mind to a particular end, simply enforce some rules, or alert me when I've entered a dream state. I don't know about total mind replacement, but merging improved characteristics would be nice.
The thing is, I haven't seen much about them, so I don't know what results are attainable. It would be nice to know what to expect beyond the old warning about spirits hijacking them for their own ends. That warning must be in a popular book or something.
In mnemonics the mechanics are pretty simple. After a little practice, you get a sense for when a connection is made. i.e See image one in high detail. See image two in high detail. See them both in high detail touching or piercing in some way. There, a sensation can be felt.
With thoughtforms, I haven't seen anything simple and mechanical like that. If they truly are autonomous, you ought to be able to build a computer through simple logic circuits. Or a more complex one allowing for the mind to automatically generate a personality/program for these things, then connect them together in a system.
I guess I really want a course on applied thoughtforms and their construction. But I'll settle for experiences that I can piece together myself.
I found some gold on the topic:
http://www.spiritual.com.au/2011/08/sigils-servitors-and-godforms-pt-1/
It's fascinating to see a wizard spill the beans, but his work isn't very refined and much may end up in confirmation bias territory. There is still practical use to be had from this. Even the negative effects (loss of anxiety) from his Zippy example would be useful.
I'm already familiar with the demon entity, believe it or not. I don't really believe in demons though. I'd like to capture that state of being for something good this time around. His techniques on meditation are also seem useful.
There's some insight in part five about Crowley's disgusting Buttchild and other sex magics/homunculi.
http://www.spiritual.com.au/2011/07/chaos-servitors/
This is closer to what I want. It's not fully conscious of itself though. Getting to the stage of feedback is what is important. Being able to quickly manipulate/program this substance and see the results is all I need.
Read the book: The Magical Use of Thoughtforms
Check out /library/.
Best basic book on learning on what thoughtforms are and how to use them to your advantage. It covers the entire topic of thoughtforms and will answer every question concerning it.
>>1926
Thanks. I'd seen it already in my searches, but was not impressed by the google excerpts. I suppose I'll give it a more thorough look now.
>>1928
Finding it through jewgle was abnormally difficult for me when I began the search for the book. I found it easily through /library/ and I believe it can help you.
Actually, here is the direct link to it:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/unzyhn6nk9righq/Magical+Use+of+Thought+Forms.pdf
>>1934
Precisely at the last line of page 33 is where all the theoretical and scientific foundation of that book turns into nonsense. It's the moment where the author, ignorant of how quantum mechanics works, proclaims that we live in a though form because "observation makes things real".
The occult community insists on perpetuating this flawed understanding of quantum physics much to their ridicule. Quantum mechanics considers "observation" the interaction of subatomic particles. A quake gives another quake existence (collapses its wave function) by interacting with it (also called "observing it").
The world is already set in stone at a much smaller scale than ours, long before your thought of your observation comes along. You can't affect the structure of matter directly with your mind in this way.
>>1934
And then he goes on to say that imaginary numbers are "astral". Hilarious.
Why is it that every time an occultist of any kind tries to support his claims with actual scientific knowledge he ends up making a fool of himself?
>>1937
>>1940
Your accusations at the book may be founded in something, but believing in limitations shall only hinder your advance. Also, this book is not going to be perfect and I doubt that there is a 'perfect' book. What a real wizard should do is take all information which you can learn from and use it to your advantage.
>A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
While this quote doesn't capture what I mean entirely, it still points towards it. Hell, even reading some books of complete disinfo might change how you view a subject. By accepting you may be wrong in a certain respect, and viewing it from another perspective, you can gain information on whether or not it is true.
>>1940
Because science and magick speak different languages and one sounds like nonsense to the other.
>>1937
>The world is already set in stone at a much smaller scale than ours, long before your thought of your observation comes along. You can't affect the structure of matter directly with your mind in this way.
I'm pretty sure it's possible to change matter with thoughtforms
>>1961
I want to believe, but so far it's not the case I'm afraid…
>>1980
I am convinced it's possible from personal experience, a friend of mine made the air hotter around me, and he said it was solely through his thoughtforms, this was outside, it was instantanious, I've been able to do it too, to change solid matter it would require a lot of energy and it would require some time, maybe a week
>>1982
Could you share more details? I've read the theory and visualize quite well (I've gotten to the point where I can almost "phase" into a lucid dream by visualizing in bed). But I don't know how to apply it practically.
>>1983
>I've read the theory and visualize quite well (I've gotten to the point where I can almost "phase" into a lucid dream by visualizing in bed).
I'm curious as to how you got that good, also just check the thoughtform thread in 8chan/fringe/ and do the very first method described, I think it was posted here too in the shapeshifting thread
>>1984
I'll go check it out right now (although 8ch is laggy as balls).
>how you got that good
Basically 15+ years of practice (I'm 29). Mainly two methods:
1. Every night try to stay at the edge of your sleep, as if you wanted to observe the very moment you "cross over". It can be difficult, but the interesting thing here is to note all the kinds of spontaneous images and sounds that come up (hypnogogic hallucinations they're called). Once you can maintain this state and not fall asleep or wake up completely, try to control them. Try to influence them. Sometimes is the voice of someone you know, seemingly talking freely, sometimes it's music. It can always be influenced by thinking symbolically instead of verbally. For instance, if I hear my mom's voice talking randomly, and I conjure an image of my cat, the voice starts talking about it. Similarly you can affect music, but I've encountered it very few times. The problem is you have to keep yourself semi-asleep. If you become fully conscious the images/sounds stop.
2. Do mindful meditation and try to have an out of body experience through the phasing method (basically visualizing a scene in loop until you phase over to it). I've never managed to go all the way, but so much visualizing really trains your mind's eye.
>>1984
The only threads I've been able to find deal with creating entities (aka tulpas). What about projecting your desire in a more abstract (or in some sense, precise) way. For example, summoning objects into your life or telepathy?
>>1989
Visualizing you having the object at present time and feeling the emotions you would feel while having this object, attracts the object to you, if you get really good at qi-gong, energy manipulation, you could just manifest it out of thin air
>>1990
Similar to what Jim Carrey did with his check.
>>1934
I read the book. It's a mixed bag. The first half reads like hypnosis trying to goad the reader into suspending disbelief (Buy my book, goy! Look, the Einstein myth! Quantum! Buy! It!). The rest is ad-hoc Jew fantasy pasted onto some kernel of seemingly authentic experience, which may be destructive if the hypnosis took. I wouldn't recommend the book to anyone I thought was gullible.
The good stuff was the practice. They seem to have invoked some neat altered states by combining meditation with visualization. Very repetitious (weeks of) meditation and visualization, toward a single manifestation. This apparently resulted in effortless recall of constructs which they could then 'power'. Supposedly, many of these could be powered at once to animate plays of all things (mundane as fuck). This is probably where my focus will be.
They seem to believe in spirits and things, but they all required much study to summon them from the astral memory. Yeah, I rolled my eyes the whole time, too. That's just what you get with delusional people. It was essentially mnemonics with occult baggage.
They never did bridge the mind-matter gap as repeatedly hinted. Though I'm not surprised. No doubt people will always dangle that grail in their books for the desperate.
My outlook is positive. If it's really so easy to create objects that people don't even need to understand what they're doing, then I don't see why I shouldn't start today. They never tried to break it down to it's atomic elements to form a theory. They projected their beliefs onto this thing which probably limited them, but we'll see.
>>1890
As I kid I lived inside my imagination more than I care to admit, but it didn't really manifest anything, because I was lacking something I can't quite describe, that is what makes magick, magick.
I've used thoughtforms to find me / produce parking spots and cash (up to $200 so far).
I haven't used them for more because I honestly don't know what I want. Ever since the endless world of possibility magick opened up for me, I've realized I have everything I'd ever want. I'm pretty content actually.
>>2814
Despite all my fantasy of childhood, I never ended up with an imaginary friend/tulpa.
Actually, it was only about a year ago (while I was still a mundane) that I began imagining myself with a particular character so often that she became a tulpa. Every night I'd ponder and imagine the same girl over and over again. I didn't focus too much on her personality. Really, the only thing holding her together as a concept was "tomboy," "partner."
I could tell something was very weird when I came home from college after a bad exam that I didn't study for, looked in the mirror, and thought "I'm worthless. Useless. I've become so terrible at what used to be my greatest passion [that is physics]" and experienced the most unusual reaction: I began crying, out of fucking nowhere. I felt such genuine sadness and emotional pain, and tears just began to flow. The weirdest thing though was that it was not my own emotions, even though I experienced them full force. It's like saying, "damn, I sure do hate hotdogs" and then all the sudden crying out of nowhere. That clearly wasn't you. I put myself down, yes, but I don't cry so easily. I took it as that I just had depression (which is probably true), but it just seemed so damn strange to me. I finally figured out shit was weird through other means. I could feel her emotions when it came to other things, too. It's easy to discern the negative emotions, because sometimes you have no idea why you're happy, and it's not the emotions of a hidden tulpa somewhere.
>tl;dr
You can basically tell if you have a tulpa already by whether you've had weird bursts of emotion out of nowhere.
Since they can read all your thoughts, ask any potential intelligences through your thoughts to work as hard as they fucking can to feel sadness over the next hour. If you don't get hit by something, you're either alone or the entities aren't local spirits. Either that or they're having a hard time drawing fourth the emotions. It should be easy for them, though, as new tulpas seem to cry at the drop of a hat. They're essentially newborns with all the knowledge and semantic experience of an adult, with no sociological experience.
>>2865
Crying out of nowhere as a sign of a tulpa. I may have done that accidentally in high school in the stupidest way.
I was a distant kid, - social interactions didn't come naturally to me, but I was smart enough to figure out the "rules" of smooth interaction. So I created a funny, out-going spontaneous version of myself that I could pretend to be to make friends and deal with people. It worked so well that friends and social interactions took of larger and larger portions of my time, so I kept the mask on longer and longer. Eventually, I wasn't "me" anymore.
I tried explaining it to a friend, that I felt dead; a stranger in my own body. That other people didn't mean anything and that my whole life was a lie. My thoughts were calm, and I was not emotionally invested in the conversation. I was just stating my thoughts as objectively as I could. And I was crying so hard I wanted to puke. It's a strange thing to cry that hard and feel nothing.
> I've become so terrible at what used to be my greatest passion [that is physics]
Oh god. I know that feel, bro. I'm a math guy who couldn't do math for a year in college. Hurts in a way that I can't always explain. How is one supposed to feel when one's biggest defining characteristic just vanishes? Literally meaningless. Like a forgotten background character in your own story.
>>1890
>What are your experiences with thoughtforms? Which have you found most useful? Can they really function autonomously to perform complex tasks without intervention from your conscious mind?
I tried seeing my ego and mind as a thought form in itself, oh boy that's a steep cliff to look down
>>1987
>Similarly you can affect music, but I've encountered it very few times.
That's funny you mention it, because I have this on a regular basis. When I listen to lots of music during a day, there is a very high chance I'll have some random (not the music I previously heard) music in my head. The strange thing it's really good and I can change it by my will like you described, say the music is a rock song and then it changes to classical if I want.
