/fringe/ - Fringe

A free Dzogchen Meditation course by email. 09/03/14 (Wed) 20:35:51 No. 16541

>Dzogchen is the approach within Buddhism based on recognising our enlightened nature, through meditation. ‘Dzogchen’ in Tibetan means ‘utterly complete’. It is the most complete or inclusive teaching of Buddhism. According to Dzogchen, we are also each already complete. There is nothing we need to obtain or jettison to realise enlightenment. We need only recognise and allow ourselves to be as we actually are. This the path of immediate self-liberation.
>The base, or starting point, of Dzogchen is rigpa: instantaneous enlightenment. If one has not experienced rigpa, it is not possible to truly practice Dzogchen. Fortunately, the Dzogchen teachings contain a ngöndro—or ‘preparation’—which brings you to the base. This ngöndro is a series of four meditation practices whose result is rigpa. These practices have the style or texture of Dzogchen – although they are not strictly speaking Dzogchen itself. In this way it is possible to approach Dzogchen on its own terms, rather than via other Buddhist yanas.
>Our free Dzogchen meditation course is a series of weekly emails, sent to you automatically by this web site. The course takes a practical, down-to-earth approach to Dzogchen meditation. It teaches the first two phases of the Dzogchen semde ngöndro, shi-nè (shamatha) and lhatong (a version of vipashyana). These techniques are similar, but not identical, to those found in some other forms of Buddhism, particularly Zen and Mahamudra.
>The course starts from the beginning, and does not require any background in Dzogchen or other meditation. It eventually goes on to more advanced material, including many different meditation methods. It also explains ways of dealing with problems that may come up, shows how to apply the insights of meditation to life, and recommends other resources and further steps.

You can read more and sign up here: http://aromeditation.org/learn-dzogchen-meditation-techniques.html

I personally recommend it to any beginner approaching meditation, it gives a steady base to work on.
This is in no way a complete course on Dzogchen. It's possible to figure it all by direct experience using what is taught here, but it's better to read more on the subject, especially on advanced stages of practice.

09/04/14 (Thu) 00:39:19 No.16549

…but but I prefer muh fringe meditations, muh hermeticism, etc.

OP 09/04/14 (Thu) 01:06:02 No.16550>>16552

I'm an hermeticist and I find meditation extremely useful for a ridiculous quantity of purposes. Particularly void meditation.

09/04/14 (Thu) 04:22:21 No.16552>>16555

>>16550
Damn me too I should post the shit I wrote about void meditation not too long ago but just put in my notes if I still have it or rewrite that. I found some new uses for it.

09/04/14 (Thu) 04:48:36 No.16554>>16555

>>16541
Sounds interesting, but why do I get a feeling that my inbox is going to get new age nonsense as well?

09/04/14 (Thu) 05:39:06 No.16555>>16556

>>16552
That would be nice to read.

>>16554
It won't happen, they are pretty neat and legit.
I wouldn't share something like this without testing it by myself.

09/04/14 (Thu) 06:49:32 No.16556

>>16555
I'll give it a try. I just remembered that I got a second email account that I hardly ever use.

09/04/14 (Thu) 09:32:09 No.16557>>16564

I'd be wary of something like this, meditation isn't something that should be taught (or passed on really, it's not strictly being "taught)" by email, and a lot of the Tibetan stuff has been watered down and co-opted.

If you care enough to do it, you should care enough to go find a teacher. Hell, if my dinky little city of 1m people in a distant corner of the Western world has a Tibetan Buddhist center, I'd imagine most people here won't have too much trouble.

09/04/14 (Thu) 10:37:25 No.16564>>16565

>>16557
Oh god I think you're that guy who won't hush up until we start paying for the books too right?

>implying I will pay for books
>implying I will accept a physically incarnate teacher (or even find one to begin with)

09/04/14 (Thu) 12:06:05 No.16565>>16582>>16640

>>16564

Yup, but the book thing is another discussion. You're never going to get anywhere real if you refuse to leave your room and actually interact with people who already know this stuff. I know it might seem daunting, but nobody who is scared to put themselves out there is ever going to succeed in practicing magic or spirituality.

You might make some small progress, but in 20 years time you'll still be struggling through the basics, while those who put themselves under the guidance of teachers will become the new generation of adepts and masters.

Doctors don't become doctors by locking themselves in their room with medical textbooks (well they do that too, but only as a part of it), they do it by going to med school and being exposed to practical lessons from doctors who've been working for several decades, have the experience, and know that they're doing. Same applies to mysticism and magic. Just the way the world works.

Speaking for myself, I made more progress in 3 months of studying under a teacher than I did in nearly 2 years of self training. So you see, I speak from experience. I too once thought that books would suffice - but I worked up the courage to approach a lineage for training, and my progress sped up exponentially.

The only people who have the potential to achieve adepthood, let alone mastery, through self training, are those who were great masters in a previous life, and are really just recalling what they already knew, using the books as a tool to bring their previously held knowledge back into their current incarnation. But such an individual would never be presumptuous enough to do so in the first place, unless forced by circumstance - he or she would understand the benefit of seeking a master that they might reach their previous stage of development even faster still, and continue their training.

09/04/14 (Thu) 18:48:22 No.16582>>16603

>>16565
>Speaking for myself, I made more progress in 3 months of studying under a teacher than I did in nearly 2 years of self training.

What does this knowledge actually amount to? What can you do?

>implying I am not going to continue to progress really fast on my own and outdo whatever you have accomplished
>implying I didn't inherent abilities from the previous lives also

No point in arguing with you really, just need to stick to practising and reading.

Also,

>implying I'm not going to try to attain the books as physical copies one day at the appropriate time
>implying I don't learn from others as well
>implying most new things I find out about from my reading aren't extraordinarily easy for me, while other people struggle very hard with it
>implying I don't have some plans in the near future for accelerated learning that I'm keeping secret and don't want to share with you

09/04/14 (Thu) 18:49:58 No.16583>>16603

Franz Bardon intended his whole system as a way for lone practitioners to self-initiate themselves without the need for a teacher.

09/05/14 (Fri) 00:51:04 No.16603>>16613

>>16582

>What does this knowledge actually amount to?

The knowledge amounts to a greater understanding of the universe and of myself. This is essential for spiritual development - "know thyself."

>What can you do?

Meditate and perform my exercises far more effectively - as well as being given access to exercises which aren't publicly available to speed my development. Connect to the energy of the lineage of my teachers to receive it's purifying and evolutionary benefit. Receive transmissions and training on higher planes of existence. A true teacher has all this and more to offer, which should make it obvious why learning under one is a better course than trying to train yourself.

If what you mean by "What can you do?" is what spiritual powers I possess or spiritual experiences I've undergone, I'm not going to go into that, firstly because it would be breaking one of the key laws of the Magi , that is, "to be silent," and secondly, because over a medium like the internet where proof cannot be provided, it would be meaningless boasting for the sake of argument. It's a pointless thing to discuss with strangers.

"Allow
no one an insight into your inner sanctum. A magician never speaks about his path, his ascent
and success. Silence contains the greatest might, and the more this commandment is obeyed,
the more accessible and easier to reach are these energies." - Bardon, pp. 65

>>16583

He also understood that only a tiny portion would succeed - he wrote his book because he was told to do so, which was because at the time there was insufficient access to knowledge of even the existence of true magic in the Western world. People were missing entire incarnations worth of spiritual development because the West was dominated by the duel forces of religion and secularism, suppressing mysticism and magic, and what knowledge was available was watered down or corrupted. Thus even individuals who had made progress in previous lives were incarnating and finding themselves unable to get back onto the path. The same problem was happening to a lesser extent in the East due to political turmoil and colonialism. The first half of the 20th century was a bleak period for magic and spirituality on a global level, and that is why Bardon was told to release knowledge that would normally be kept secret and to live publicly as an adept, even demonstrate to the public for a period of time.

Still, maybe one in a thousand of the people who make some attempt at Bardon's system get anywhere, and of those, even less than one in a thousand actually graduate the system (that is, for the purpose of this discussion, finish the first 8 Steps, the last 2 are something else entirely). Every one of those individuals that I'm aware of also had outside training in addition to Bardon. Many of them took up Bardon after they had already been training in other systems and so already mastered the very basics.

09/05/14 (Fri) 05:04:18 No.16613

>>16603
>The knowledge amounts to a greater understanding of the universe and of myself. This is essential for spiritual development - "know thyself."

Oh well consider me extremely unimpressed.

>Meditate and perform my exercises far more effectively - as well as being given access to exercises which aren't publicly available to speed my development. Connect to the energy of the lineage of my teachers to receive it's purifying and evolutionary benefit. Receive transmissions and training on higher planes of existence. A true teacher has all this and more to offer, which should make it obvious why learning under one is a better course than trying to train yourself.

…but I do all that shit without a physical teacher. I am extremely skilled in meditation and it all comes easy to me. I receive support and guidance from the astral too if I go seek it out there.

>If what you mean by "What can you do?" is what spiritual powers I possess or spiritual experiences I've undergone, I'm not going to go into that, firstly because it would be breaking one of the key laws of the Magi , that is, "to be silent," and secondly, because over a medium like the internet where proof cannot be provided, it would be meaningless boasting for the sake of argument. It's a pointless thing to discuss with strangers.

I never even ask for proof or care about that I just want to hear what you supposedly do and how you do it.

>"Allow no one an insight into your inner sanctum. A magician never speaks about his path, his ascent and success. Silence contains the greatest might, and the more this commandment is obeyed, the more accessible and easier to reach are these energies." - Bardon, pp. 65

Well you sure are using that as a convenient excuse to be selective about what you talk about while still wasting time talking to me instead of being silent.

>He also understood that only a tiny portion would succeed - he wrote his book because he was told to do so, which was because at the time there was insufficient access to knowledge of even the existence of true magic in the Western world. People were missing entire incarnations worth of spiritual development because the West was dominated by the duel forces of religion and secularism, suppressing mysticism and magic, and what knowledge was available was watered down or corrupted. Thus even individuals who had made progress in previous lives were incarnating and finding themselves unable to get back onto the path. The same problem was happening to a lesser extent in the East due to political turmoil and colonialism. The first half of the 20th century was a bleak period for magic and spirituality on a global level, and that is why Bardon was told to release knowledge that would normally be kept secret and to live publicly as an adept, even demonstrate to the public for a period of time.

I will succeed.

Also,

>implying the situation has got any less worse now for magic and mysticism

>Still, maybe one in a thousand of the people who make some attempt at Bardon's system get anywhere, and of those, even less than one in a thousand actually graduate the system (that is, for the purpose of this discussion, finish the first 8 Steps, the last 2 are something else entirely). Every one of those individuals that I'm aware of also had outside training in addition to Bardon. Many of them took up Bardon after they had already been training in other systems and so already mastered the very basics.

You will see I will complete it on my own. I'm already into step 4 and without even really straining myself. I also research a ton of other occultists. I am naturally gifted in magic.

09/05/14 (Fri) 22:39:46 No.16640>>16642

>>16565

>You might make some small progress, but in 20 years time you'll still be struggling through the basics, while those who put themselves under the guidance of teachers will become the new generation of adepts and masters.

Oh please. Implying you have any idea what you're talking about and aren't just another kid with no experience talking about things vastly above his level of comprehension.

I've never seen anyone advocate this position that 'you can't learn esoteric knowledge yourself, you have to be initiated by a guru' that wasn't themselves involved in some social club masquerading as a mystery school and looking for reasons to imagine that they were better than solitary practitioners because of it.

I guess you got into magic to feel special, and now that you're on a forum surrounded by other people into magic, you need another way to set yourself above the herd.

09/06/14 (Sat) 01:03:20 No.16642>>16643

File: 1409965400432.jpg (139.71 KB, 746x736, 1403733597501.jpg)

>>16640

Or alternatively, just trying to offer advice to people who come here and are just starting out on the path. Why would I bother trying to "set myself above people" on an anonymous image board?

I'm just telling people the things I wish someone had told me when I was starting out, namely in this case, that they'll have a much better chance of succeeding if they look for someone who's already succeeded to guide them.

I know it's nice to believe that you can progress just as easily all by yourself (thereby sparing you both the effort of going outside your comfort zone and looking for a teacher and the admission that you aren't a special snowflake and that you need help like everyone else),but that just isn't true. It's the same in every other area of human endeavor - if we want to excel, we seek the help of people who've already done so, so they can guide us through the lessons they learned and help us avoid the mistakes they made. Why would magic and spirituality be any different?

Can you name even one person who makes a reasonable claim to any decent level of proficiency in magic or spirituality who isn't affiliated with any group or teacher? I can't. Even the authors of books which profess to allow the student to learn by themselves are all affiliated with lodges or schools, or have spent time under the tutelage of assorted adepts, gurus, sages, etc.

If there's a chance that posting this advice here, now, helps even one person stop for a moment, question their ego, and maybe consider that seeking guidance would help them dramatically, then I'm going to post it. Because as I said, it's what I wish I'd been told when I was starting out, and not enough people say it because the west still labors under the delusion (stemming from various historical issues) that self training is viable for more than a tiny percentage of potential magicians.

09/06/14 (Sat) 01:24:42 No.16643>>16650>>16653

>>16642
Every time you state your view on this it spurs me on to go it alone even more. I admit that others may be more advanced than me but that inspires me to act individually, not from an overabundance of ego, rather a drive to guide myself. It may be hypocritical of me to have helped guide others slightly in my time yet I have received pointers here and there too, just no long-term organised teaching.

I do not refuse help nor ask for it. If I cannot salvage myself maybe it is best that I keep failing, assisted salvation seems like a hollow victory to me.

09/06/14 (Sat) 05:54:02 No.16650>>16653>>16668

>>16643

To me it sounds like you're inflicting arbitrary difficulty on yourself for the sole purpose of maintaining some self image as a lone wolf type who 'don't need no help from nobody.'

It's silly. Nobody expects people to learn any other skill by themselves, and magic/spirituality have been passed down through lineages since the dawn of human history on this planet. Why insist on trying to hold yourself to an almost impossible ideal just to be some exception?

09/06/14 (Sat) 05:57:17 No.16651>>16692

Those who put themselves under the "guidance of adepts and teachers" will get years of their life wasted and then they will realize the only path is the one of solitude.

Aren't you even of all the risks with being controlled, hypnotized, effected by the thoughtform matrixes of, etc. of these persons you'd go to?

If you suggest also that I pay money to some teacher who is supposedly a high adept then that's even worse.

Then there's the problem of even finding one of these guys to begin with. Even the fake master adepts are hard to find, nevermind real ones.

09/06/14 (Sat) 06:10:05 No.16652>>16695

>It's the same in every other area of human endeavor - if we want to excel, we seek the help of people who've already done so, so they can guide us through the lessons they learned and help us avoid the mistakes they made. Why would magic and spirituality be any different?

I never learned anything I know from a teacher. ANYTHING. Everything I know is from books. I learned gardening from books, I learned my hobbies from books, and I learned many other things all from books (and research online).

Books are generally better sources of information than people too because people say all kinds of bullshit and also have fallible memories, whereas a book can be finely crafted and edited to provide accurate and detailed information, that would be hard for even professionals to give to you unless they've got extraordinary memory.

>Can you name even one person who makes a reasonable claim to any decent level of proficiency in magic or spirituality who isn't affiliated with any group or teacher? I can't.

Name anyone who can make a reasonable claim to any level of proficiency in magic or spirituality period, regardless of their group affiliations or having been a disciple of someone.

>Even the authors of books which profess to allow the student to learn by themselves are all affiliated with lodges or schools, or have spent time under the tutelage of assorted adepts, gurus, sages, etc.

…and they're practically all full of shit.

>question their ego

The fuck does this even mean? I don't think you know what the word "ego" means or even understand how your statement is absurd nonsense?

09/06/14 (Sat) 06:15:23 No.16653

>>16643
>overabundance of ego

The fuck does this mean?

Someone explain what this even means.

You all say strange things about ego.

>>16650
>Nobody expects people to learn any other skill by themselves,

I expect them to do so. All tools and information is provided. They don't need a person physically present with them.

>and magic/spirituality have been passed down through lineages since the dawn of human history on this planet.

The legitimate lineages are not open to just anyone who wants to join them. Magic is power, and these people will not give away their power except to their own offspring or persons who they deem worthy of receiving the teachings. No money will buy this power and seeking them out, if you can even find one which is extremely fucking unlikely, doesn't guarantee they'd take you on. It's a waste of time to go seeking them out. They almost certainly will bind you to some kind of oath or magical pact that will limit what you can do as well so fuck that.

>Why insist on trying to hold yourself to an almost impossible ideal just to be some exception?

Not that poster you're responding to but I think your presumption is retarded and besides success in magic is already an "impossible ideal" regardless of whether you have a teacher or not.

09/06/14 (Sat) 14:05:42 No.16668>>16670

>>16650
I have only ever had myself to rely on, studying magic hasn't changed that. I accept appropriate help if and when offered, I do not flail about begging for someone further along to hold my hand through the journey.

Nobody can understand greater truths for you, even if they can explain them. Ultimately it all comes down to you alone, no matter what influence others may have had.

09/06/14 (Sat) 15:22:49 No.16670>>16672

>>16668
This brings to my mind quote from Dhammapada; “You yourselves must strive; the Buddhas only point the way.”

Even if you have all the world's greatest teachers teach you their teachings, even if you are given all the help in the world, you still cannot attain salvation if there is no action on your part. There is no one to save you, remember that! What others can do to you is but point out the direction, but you yourself must take the path.

And still, you will never take the same path as the others. Isn't it funny? We all go our own paths, some longer while some shorter, some rougher while some smoother - and look, we will all arrive at the same place, and then we'll notice that we were there all along.

09/06/14 (Sat) 17:47:31 No.16672>>16673

>>16670
Buddhism teaches that you can't reach full enlightenment without a teacher though, even the pratyekabuddhas, solitary practitioners, can only reach to nirvana, and still only manage do so because of teachers in their past lives.

09/06/14 (Sat) 18:10:21 No.16673>>16674

>>16672
I just wanted to point out that teachers can only take you so far, as the rest is up to you.

09/06/14 (Sat) 18:16:24 No.16674>>16676

>>16673
Oh, I see, sorry for the misunderstanding.

09/06/14 (Sat) 18:36:29 No.16676

>>16674
No need to say sorry. I could have clarified myself more though, but I'm glad you gave me the chance to do so!

Thank you, and have a constructive day!

09/06/14 (Sat) 23:51:13 No.16692

>>16651

>Those who put themselves under the "guidance of adepts and teachers" will get years of their life wasted and then they will realize the only path is the one of solitude.

So can you list all those adepts and masters who reached their status without the help of outside training? Cause I can't think of any.

>Aren't you even of all the risks with being controlled, hypnotized, effected by the thoughtform matrixes of, etc. of these persons you'd go to?

Of course that's always a risk, but it can be minimized with carefulness and a bit of common sense. You don't just sign up with the first person you find who claims to be an adept, you evaluate them as a potential teacher, just as you'd evaluate a potential employer or university you were planning on applying to.

>If you suggest also that I pay money to some teacher who is supposedly a high adept then that's even worse.

The money for teaching thing is a whole other topic all together, if you wanna create another thread to discuss it, I'd be happy to, but it'll just divert us here.

>Then there's the problem of even finding one of these guys to begin with. Even the fake master adepts are hard to find, nevermind real ones.

Sure they are, if you intend for your spiritual development to consist of sitting in a basement reading .pdf files you downloaded. If you actually go out and interact with other students and seekers, read publications and articles, travel to meditation centers, martial arts schools, monasteries, study groups, etc etc. you might find it a bit easier.

It doesn't work like it does in novels and movies, teachers don't just randomly turn up at your door or pop into your life (for most people, although I've heard some interesting stories) to tell you they've come to help you become a powerful, enlightened magician. You have to put yourself out there.

I spent ages going over and rewriting the first message I sent to my teacher, and I was nervous as hell, certain the reply would say that I'm not suitable, or that they don't want any more students, or that I'd receive no reply at all. So I understand the fear of failure and rejection which makes "self training" so appealing - there's no risk of a pdf file rejecting you.

09/07/14 (Sun) 00:13:38 No.16695

>>16652

>I never learned anything I know from a teacher. ANYTHING. Everything I know is from books. I learned gardening from books, I learned my hobbies from books, and I learned many other things all from books (and research online).

Gardening isn't really comparable to magical or spiritual development (although it is a nice way to wind down after an intense practice session).

>Books are generally better sources of information than people too because people say all kinds of bullshit and also have fallible memories, whereas a book can be finely crafted and edited to provide accurate and detailed information, that would be hard for even professionals to give to you unless they've got extraordinary memory.

Source of information, maybe (although there's a lot of information about these subjects that isn't published anywhere public).

But Information isn't training. A book can't answer questions when it says something you don't understand, and a book can't correct your mistake when you perform an exercise incorrectly (which can set someone back years in their effort, not to mention do all sorts of damage).

>Name anyone who can make a reasonable claim to any level of proficiency in magic or spirituality period, regardless of their group affiliations or having been a disciple of someone.

What would that achieve? You'd just accuse me of making them up or claim that they're frauds - can't prove these things over the internet.

>…and they're practically all full of shit.

Wait, so now books are "full of shit?" You were just saying they were great sources of information. Or are the lodges and teachers who the authors learned from "full of shit?" Then why are you reading a book written by an author trained by them?

>The fuck does this even mean? I don't think you know what the word "ego" means or even understand how your statement is absurd nonsense?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=define+colloquial&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HKILVMu4E6qN8Qe8x4HIAg