/fringe/ - Fringe

Hail the Darkness! 08/23/14 (Sat) 12:11:24 No. 16030

>implying you can't be of evil intentions and develop amazing magical power all the same

Why is the world so fucked up if we are to assume that everyone advancing along the path can only do so by maintaining a STO and ethical character?

While you faggots are busy arguing about who is more ethical than thou some of us realize it's all bullshit and we are free to do as we please, including destroying others and making them suffer.

What you going to do about it? Nothing because you're impotent.

The darkness is stronger here, that should be abundantly apparent by the state of existence in this realm.

If you are practising the RHP or White Magick because you think it's more powerful and not because it's your nature to be benevolent, you're garbage anyways. Anyone who wants to advance along that path ought to pick it because they just want to do good for the world and don't have malice in them.

The rest of you who have this "evil" in you and suppress it will fail in your intentions. No matter how much you consciously deny it, it's there, and will remain there until you have exhausted all your malice.

Black magick user and don't give a fuck.

08/23/14 (Sat) 12:19:03 No.16035

File: 1408796342720.jpg (103.8 KB, 900x596, u5508181BABAJI.jpg)

08/23/14 (Sat) 12:35:14 No.16037

File: 1408797314600.jpg (78.14 KB, 184x242, kali-1.jpg)

I feel this is relevant.

>Chaos Magick and Morality

The problem of morality in magick and lack of it in Chaos Magick is not so much a problem for the magicians as for those around them. Morality, after all, is nothing more than a set of principles, usually, but not always, stated that groups of people expect others to live by if they wish to be accepted into that group, be it a small religious cult like the Amish or a broader civil society.

Now magick, as it deals with the raw energies of the cosmos and the various non-physical (at least as we understand the term) entities that abound therein, operates in a universe where the principles of any given human social grouping are simply not going to apply. For example, if I invoke the deity Electricity, that god is not going to care if I use his energy to light my house or electrocute my neighbor. The society I live in will have definite and strong opinions on the matter, but the deity will not. The reason for this would seem to be relatively simple. The consciousness that runs the universe does not give diddly about human social opinion, if it even knows that such a thing exists.

That being said, magicians are social beings. And while lots of us would like to think we have totally freed ourselves from the social strictures of our mundane or worse (orthodox wiccan, for example) neighbors we still have a lot of things floating around in us that we have internalized and are not just going to leave, nor do we want them to. And every once in a while we run into them just after spending hours and hours fulminating against morality only to find ourselves experiencing what can only be called moral outrage and then our fellow magicians laugh at us because we got caught with a principle showing.

Now, explaining this to someone else, particularly someone who is not a magician, can be nigh unto impossible because that person may have internalized so many rules that the concept of working in a value-free structure is either inconceivable to that person or so utterly terrifying as to be unthinkable. For example, my fellow Theosophists will tie themselves into intellectual Gordian knots trying to figure out the workings of Karma and the along comes Uncle Chuckie who unties the knot the same way Alexander the Great did. I cut it by simply saying Karma is hokum. This makes them somewhat nervous, but since they know me they don't get as terrified about it as they used to. Even so, they still live a world where the universe is run along the lines of Victorian sentimentality and get very bothered about things that other people consider to be merely annoying or entertaining. They aren't going to change, so I don't try to. And as they know they can't change me, they have come to the conclusion that I am a refreshing bit of heresy and we enjoy each other's company tremendously. The same situation probably applies to most of the people on this list in one way or another depending upon whom they hang out with.

It would seem that Chaotes, being the mad spiritual anarchists that they are, will never quite fit in with any stated concept of morality but will rather follow their own internal systems.

08/23/14 (Sat) 12:53:11 No.16039

File: 1408798390797.jpeg (78.79 KB, 640x640, M.jpeg)

>Uncle Chuckie

I've watched some of this guy's vids. What has this faggot ever done to make himself feared at all?

I remember he denounced karma and I liked that. I think if we just referred instead to causality we'd realize how amoral "karma" is, as really, karma is just the Eastern concept of a higher level of causality and nothing more.

08/23/14 (Sat) 12:59:47 No.16041

File: 1408798787708.jpg (19.01 KB, 287x410, TLobsangRampa6.jpg)

I want to bring up something I remember reading in one of Lobsang Rampa's text and it is this:

…before his Tibetan masters bestowed certain powers on him they put him into a deep trance / hypnosis or whatever and bonded him to some kind of oath not to do harm to others.

So when I read that it made me think, he could have done anything if it weren't for his master's oversight in making sure the disciple didn't use his power to do harm.

I have to find the exact piece of text where it basically says this but there's a lot to dig through to find it.

Anyone else who studied Lobsang Rampa remember this?

A lot of magical orders also force you to take some kind of oath that forces you to follow some kind of ethics.

Us lone practitioners are only subject to our internal ethics and nothing more.

Extract from The Stellar Man that is relevant 08/23/14 (Sat) 13:23:09 No.16042>>16229

We attempt to encourage a person, through reflection, to see the unbarred cell in which he lives, as this is the only way that the desire to escape will be born in him. While an individual believes that all is well and that he himself is very well, there will be no possibility of real evolution.

This is the reason why many mystics suddenly feel spiritual restlessness after having gone through tremendously painful experiences which came as a positive shock, awakening them from their somnambulistic lethargy. The object of suffering is to awaken the individual's consciousness. Nevertheless, there are many so deeply asleep that suffering only further brutalizes them, and is absolutely unproductive.

There are many who have a purely devotional attitude toward Hermeticism, thinking that it is sufficient to be very spiritual to progress along the path, and that these spiritual individuals (according to their own opinion) will be the best prepared to ascend to higher levels. They believe that progress is attained by a kind of contact with heaven or with the occult powers, and that it is sufficient to sacrifice oneself by serving mankind in order to obtain everything.

In truth, the great disadvantage of Hermeticism lies in the fact that it is the path of pure intelligence, and if the student does not develop his intelligence and awareness to the required levels, no evolution is possible. Another enormous obstacle for people is that it is necessary to work very hard as Hermeticism is the path of self salvation, and out of laziness and indolence, one does not wish to save himself.

>this shits on STO

08/23/14 (Sat) 13:59:27 No.16048

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

Good, goood… Soon you will know the full power of the Dark Side! I can feel your anger, your rage, it gives you focus, it makes you stronger, more powerful. Let the hate flow through you!

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/23/14 (Sat) 15:28:15 No.16061>>16062

08/23/14 (Sat) 15:31:29 No.16062>>16083>>16120

>>16061
Weren't you just being a huge faggot who believes in that false dichotomy in another thread though, getting upset at a poster over the possibility he might abuse power? If you were truly amoral, you could not recognize any abuses of power, for power is simply power.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/23/14 (Sat) 18:12:26 No.16083>>16089

>>16062

I didn't get upset over the possibility that he might abuse power - in fact, the opposite. I pointed out that power and spiritual development go hand in hand, and that as power cannot be attained without first ridding yourself of negative traits, balancing your personality and passing through certain states of spiritual attainment to become closer to God, the risk of someone abusing power doesn't really exist (except in certain special cases, which are so rare as to be irrelevant).

If you want the power, you first have to develop spiritually, if you want to develop spiritually, you'll gain the potential for power as you do so (although a lot of Eastern systems don't provide training for it, seeing it as a distraction from their race towards liberation). The power and the spiritual development go hand in hand.

That's why the magicians and adepts famous for their power all used that power to aid mankind. The so called "left hand path" philosophy (which is only 50 years or so old in it's Western incarnation, the term has a totally different meaning in the East) has never produced anyone capable of anything more than minor astral sorcery.

So if the poster in question continues to pursue power, he'll eventually by default undergo spiritual development, grow closer to God and lose his angry and selfish impulses. It's just how the process works.

08/23/14 (Sat) 19:18:22 No.16088

08/23/14 (Sat) 20:02:31 No.16089

>>16083
>power cannot be attained without first ridding yourself of negative traits

My bullshit detector is going off.

>the risk of someone abusing power doesn't really exist

Yet this happens all the time.

>That's why the magicians and adepts famous for their power all used that power to aid mankind.

Then why are there so many high level black magicians thwarting the efforts of people like Franz Bardon?

Most important question to answer here: if power can't be abused then why is there so much suffering in this world?

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/24/14 (Sun) 11:58:17 No.16120>>16122>>16128

>>16062

>My bullshit detector is going off.

You should get it checked.

>Yet this happens all the time.

>Then why are there so many high level black magicians thwarting the efforts of people like Franz Bardon?

Like I said, all the great magicians and adepts of the past have used their power for good. There are no famous historical adepts who dedicated their lives to attaining spiritual power and then using it to attain wealth, women, and assorted other physical pleasures and powers. Besides, such things can be attained much more easily by non-magical means. If you want wealth and power for selfish reasons, go into business or politics. Much more efficient means of obtaining physical pleasure than attempting to do so.

And yet yes, there are people who use sorcery (as opposed to magic) to do harm, or for selfish reasons, but the things they can do pale in comparison to what can be achieved by a properly trained and developed magician. They practice weak astral sorcery (sigils, curses and other such nonsense) or work through pacts with evil (for lack of a better word) spirits, but they possess almost no true power on their own to command the forces of creation. Even a magician in training who has reached the inner temple can dismiss their workings with the wave of a hand, let alone an adept or a full master.

I assume your point about Bardon is referring to the book Frabato. Assuming the events in the book took place as described (there's a lot of skepticism about this, Votavova is known to be a less than reliable source), you'll notice that far from "thwarting" Bardon, the efforts of the Black Lodge were dismissed with literally the wave of a hand at every turn by Bardon.

"Since time immemorial the Magi were always considered to be the highest
initiates; the word "magic" originated from them. The so-called sorcerers are not
initiates; instead they are only imitators of the Mysteries who exploit the ignorance and
gullibility of the individual and of an entire nation in order to achieve their selfish goals
through deception and dishonesty. The true magician despises any such actions." - Bardon, IIH

>Most important question to answer here: if power can't be abused then why is there so much suffering in this world?

Because spiritual power cannot be abused (to any great degree, except in certain very rare circumstance), but material power can. Because history is cyclical and in our current age of development, a certain degree of suffering is necessary for humanity to learn the lessons it needs to learn to undergo the spiritual maturation it needs to undergo. Eventually we'll gradually reach a higher state of evolution as the souls currently in rotation reincarnate over and over and develop, eliminate suffering, and create a paradisaical society where material and spiritual pursuits are in balance. This society will last for a time, but eventually the higher souls will move on beyond the material plane, less developed souls will take their place and the society will collapse, driving humanity back to a bronze age or earlier civilization as a new batch of undeveloped souls reincarnate over and over to repeat the same cycle.

08/24/14 (Sun) 12:23:19 No.16122

>>16120
Thank you for posting this, it's thought-provoking.

08/24/14 (Sun) 14:21:03 No.16128>>16146

>>16120
>sorcery
>not magic

Your whole narrative seems way too naively positive. There are obviously powerful forces of evil at work in the world which prevent the forces of good from total domination as well as force them into secrecy.

08/24/14 (Sun) 14:35:00 No.16133>>16136

>not being Asatruar, where you are good to your family and folk, yet demented and berserk towards your foes

Why not have the best of both worlds?

08/24/14 (Sun) 14:45:34 No.16136

>>16133
>needing Asatru to be like that

Still love thy enemy but don't let that stop you from killing them.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/24/14 (Sun) 15:25:06 No.16146>>16148>>16177>>16182

File: 1408893906298.jpg (125.31 KB, 603x599, 603px-Serpiente_alquimica.jpg)

>>16128

The Adepts of the Mystery Schools of Greece and Egypt, where modern magic originated, defined magic into three categories:

1 - Theurgy ("God-Work"): The practice of magic for the purpose of spiritual evolution.

2 - Thaumaturgy ("Wonder-Work"): The practice of magic by an accomplished theurgist from a place of wisdom and enlightenment for the purpose of aiding mankind.

3 - Goetia ("Sorcery"): The practice of magic for selfish, harmful or materialistic means by one who had undergone no spiritual training or development.

Unlike the Theurgist, who can work literal wonders through his having developed his energetic and mental bodies in the process of his spiritual evolution (ie. healing through the projection of his excess vital energy, control of the elements to command weather, call fire, levitate, etc. through his attunement to the elemental energies which underlay reality, among many others), the sorcerer has to work with a weak, imbalanced energetic body and untrained mind, and as such resorts to making pacts with spirits, utilizing pre-prepared sigils or spells, talismans and alchemical spagyrics, etc.

This is what western magic has mostly devolved down to these days, since the rise of Christianity lead to persecution and the eventual destruction of any competing spiritual path.

TheThirdEye▲!lO9ZzMhOgw 08/24/14 (Sun) 15:26:40 No.16148

>>16146
10/10 post.

08/25/14 (Mon) 13:51:27 No.16177>>16183

>>16146
Goetia/sorcery is still magic, deal with it.

08/25/14 (Mon) 13:57:37 No.16178>>16179>>16194

File: 1408975057134.jpg (90.5 KB, 864x598, 1360987642700.jpg)

I'm just going to add this to the discussion. It about how a practitioner of Franz Bardon's teachings was able to use it for selfish means and great profit, while suppressing sincere seekers from any means of progress.

http://www.oocities.org/franzbardon/frenchsect.html

This person seemingly is very developed, but by the look of it, isn't too "holy" in his dealings.

What say either parties? Any opinions?

08/25/14 (Mon) 14:20:38 No.16179

>>16178
I'll give it a read later, but I like the image you posted.

08/25/14 (Mon) 19:05:05 No.16182>>16183

>>16146
>Goetia ("Sorcery"): The practice of magic for selfish, harmful or materialistic means by one who had undergone no spiritual training or development.

History is full of priests and politicians who engage in selfish acts while telling commoners not to do the same. Why should I care what some pompous Egyptian initiate thinks, who probably owned slaves and fucked boys? The idea that you can't be materially AND spiritually gratified, the idea that you can only have one or the other, is probably the greatest lie ever told.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/25/14 (Mon) 21:45:23 No.16183>>16185>>16215

File: 1409003122856.jpg (87.82 KB, 600x600, 1366983920366.jpg)

>>16177

Under the modern definition (change created through "supernatural" means), yes.

Under the tradition definition (Magia - the practices of the Magi, who were theurgists), no.

>>16182

>History is full of priests and politicians who engage in selfish acts while telling commoners not to do the same. Why should I care what some pompous Egyptian initiate thinks, who probably owned slaves and fucked boys? The idea that you can't be materially AND spiritually gratified, the idea that you can only have one or the other, is probably the greatest lie ever told.

Firstly, I'm not sure what priests and politicians have to do with it. While many (maybe even most) of the initiates of the old Mystery Schools were priests, at least in the Egypt (not so much in Greece, where they tended to form their own philosophical groups), it is not the case that most of the priesthood were initiates of the Mystery Schools. The true initiates made up only a small percentage of the priesthood.

Secondly, it depends on what you mean by material gratification. If you mean a house, a wife, children, an income to sustain a decent standard of living for them, then sure, no problem, especially if these are obtained by material means.

You don't have to live like a begger or an ascetic in a monastery to be spiritual or practice magic - look at Bardon as an example. He had a nice but modest house, a wife and children, etc. And this is encouraged by many schools and teachers, especially as the student progresses into the inner temple, to ground them in the real world.

But if what you mean is attempting to gain spiritual power 'for the purpose' of punishing people you perceive as enemies, or accumulating excessive wealth, or to ensnare random women to use them for meaningless sex - in short, to live a selfish and materialistic life - then no, you can't. This is literally the very first thing Bardon says in IIH:

"Whoever may believe that he has found, in this book, a collection of recipes
through which he can effortlessly obtain honor, fame, wealth and power or the means to
annihilate his enemies should be told that eventually he will very disappointedly put this
book aside."

08/25/14 (Mon) 22:38:36 No.16185>>16200>>16233

>>16183
You make a lot of good points itt, and I agree with you to the extent that I can, being rather new still to the occult. I am dedicated, though, and a quick learner.

Any theurgical texts other than IIH that you have a liking for/ might suggest for someone who's likely done less reading than yourself? My ultimate goal is basically thaumaturgy. I'm the type of person who would probably incarnate again a couple times after freeing from samsara. Just to help others. But, I recognize the need to develop oneself primarily as well as concurrently helping others.

Also, think it's funny how calm and rational you are when responding. Whereas "LHP" adherents immediately start with their bullshit detectors and fuck yous when they disagree with someone. Sigh. I don't see why any one person on /fringe/ would be another's foe, barring immense personal disrespect.

To address the topic at hand: in Law of One (Ra Material) and/or Seth Material, it's basically said, that yes, you can advance via service to self. But before you break out of this density entirely you're going to have to also progress through STO. Basically meaning, if you figure out STS, you may reincarnate close to figuring out STO in the same density, but you're not going to break free of this density. This should be pretty clear, since STO are obviously of a higher vibrational frequency.

Everyone supposedly has to go through both levels at each density up until 5th or 6th (forget which), where STS no longer exists. So, why would you trade this one life wherein you can punish everyone, get immense material gains, fuck women lustfully, etc. for basically holding yourself back several lifetimes more in the big picture? Is advancing to the next stage of life, beyond Earthly existence, not part of your agenda? Seems a silly tradeoff, but then again, it is up to each and every one of us to make our choices.

I do agree with Chaoates in that the ethical imperative is to increase freedom of choice, so I wouldn't stand in the way. In fact, one of the few times I ever did anything close to LHP was briefly curse two guys in a bar who were crudely disrespecting women. Recanted it later that night once the alcohol wore off. It was a great learning experience with regards to not being shortsighted and not actually getting intoxicated myself.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/26/14 (Tue) 00:42:37 No.16194>>16195

>>16178

Remember the earlier quote?


"Since time immemorial the Magi were always considered to be the highest
initiates; the word "magic" originated from them. The so-called sorcerers are not
initiates; instead they are only imitators of the Mysteries who exploit the ignorance and
gullibility of the individual and of an entire nation in order to achieve their selfish goals
through deception and dishonesty. The true magician despises any such actions." - Bardon, IIH

What you linked is a perfect example. It's sad to see that an abusive cult leader was using Bardon's name to try and legitimize himself and make money, although all of those emails are 15 years old, so going off what was said about the age of the man in question, it's unlikely he or his group is around anymore.

Everything described on that page is a perfect example of the acts of a selfish sorcerer posing as an Adept to abuse the sadly ignorant or gullible. The use of talismans and amulets, the influence over his followers on the astral level, the combination of sorcery with fake thaumaturgy (possible sorcery - that could have been fakery too, although at least some of it sounds legit). Notice that he didn't perform any of the acts a real Adept could easily have demonstrated that would have been far more impressive than his 'rock' demonstration (which was said to quite likely have been an illusion) - healing, telekinesis, calling fire, levitation, altering the weather, materialization, etc. etc.

Any of these could have been managed by someone who had mastered Bardon's Qabalah (or even the first 8 steps of his IIH syllabus), but instead what does he do? Allegedly reduce the weight of a rock slightly. There are Chinese masters who can crack a boulder the height of a man from a distance.

So yeah, it's sad, but it's all very typical for that kind of sorcerer, he made no demonstration of true power, just weak astral sorcery, parlor tricks and manipulation.

08/26/14 (Tue) 00:56:19 No.16195>>16200

>>16194
Do you have a problem with sorcery in general or just some practitioners?

08/26/14 (Tue) 01:07:17 No.16197

>>16030
Be gone Indigo-pill! The light on the Monad will shine through!

08/26/14 (Tue) 01:25:54 No.16198>>16199

I'm curious, how does one get into "black magick"? This isn't one of those new age nonsense is it?

08/26/14 (Tue) 01:29:20 No.16199

>>16198
Black magick is not new age lol; it's been practiced for centuries and centuries.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/26/14 (Tue) 01:39:48 No.16200>>16217>>16222

File: 1409017188556.jpg (142.38 KB, 500x414, 380965029_b31f11b6de.jpg)

>>16195

Although the term is often used with negative connotations, I personally only have issue with those who abuse it. There are plenty of cultures, past and present, where sorcery is/was used to do good.

The cunning men/women of Europe for example, were village healer type figures who for centuries through the dark ages and into the medieval period (in some places where the witch panic didn't grow too strong, even longer) would work to heal the sick, protect the crops, ward off negative spirits, provide blessings and advice in the form of divination, that kind of thing - using a mashup of Christian prayer and petitioning to saints and what survived of the old pre-Christian lore of spells, charms, talismans, the power of various herbs and stones, etc.

Similar figures still exist in a lot of third world countries today, parts of Africa, South America and Asia, sometimes performing the function of shaman as well, to varying degrees, with different names in different places.

Of course not all of them are benevolent, sorcery is a tool, because it doesn't require spiritual development to attain it can be used to help or harm equally, just like any tool, depending on the wielder.

So no, I don't have an inherent problem with it, only with it's abuse. But at the end of the day, even a half trained theurgist/magician can do more than the greatest of sorcerers, because he's undergone internal development and gained spiritual authority which the sorcerer has not.

>>16185

>Any theurgical texts other than IIH that you have a liking for/ might suggest for someone who's likely done less reading than yourself?

Sure, I have to go out for a bit, but I'll post some suggestions later this afternoon when I get back. Unfortunately much of what I've been taught has been passed down directly from teachers, and I don't feel comfortable posting it here (even if I could sum it up somehow), but there's plenty of reading on the subject available (although only a portion of it outside of Bardon is practical).

08/26/14 (Tue) 03:43:26 No.16212

I still don't understand. If you are practicing something that is considered by many as volatile then wouldn't you want to have some rules, or at least, some guidelines in place?

08/26/14 (Tue) 05:28:52 No.16215>>16217>>16230

>>16183
>"Whoever may believe that he has found, in this book, a collection of recipes through which he can effortlessly obtain honor, fame, wealth and power or the means to annihilate his enemies should be told that eventually he will very disappointedly put this book aside."

Sounds to me like sour grapes to me. Bardon is afraid to admit his magic can't accomplish those things, so he's jumping on the spiritualistic high-horse of saying you shouldn't want those things.

08/26/14 (Tue) 05:59:48 No.16217>>16219>>16232

>>16215
Are you open at all to the possibility that true magic, being spiritually based, doesn't allow for epic amounts of any of these things? Not in general, but because if you gained the spiritual strength to do so, you wouldn't, and if you hadn't, you couldn't. I'm pretty sure that's the core of what >>16200 has been trying to say; that you need to invoke higher beings of generally questionable character/nature to actually do so. That no longer being magic but actually properly referred to as sorcery. I'll let him chime in with a proper response, but it seems perfectly logical and reasonable to me.

Even those who have been known to have the siddhi of materialization generally provided trinkets at the most (pieces of jewelry). Hence, while you may be able to make gold bricks pop out with sufficient development, knowing full well the corrupting influence it has and how people would fight wars to get ahold of you, try and force you to make bricks, etc. it would be really dumb and pointless to actually do that. Plus, what use would you have for material goods when you've got that level of spiritual strength?

08/26/14 (Tue) 07:30:47 No.16218

File: 1409038247107.jpeg (243.16 KB, 725x810, tumblr_static_lazyyogi3-1.jpeg)

>>16030
Incarnating here allows us to transform great darkness into great light.

08/26/14 (Tue) 08:55:25 No.16219>>16220>>16229

>>16217
> if you gained the spiritual strength to do so, you wouldn't

That's completely childish though. That's like something a gradeschooler would say.

>"I COULD do all these amazing things that would make your jaw drop. I just don't wanna."

08/26/14 (Tue) 12:22:14 No.16220

>>16219
In order to acquire those powers the initiate would have to go through character refinements, meaning he would be humble enough and considerate enough to not make people do his bidding or show something flashy just to prove his power.

08/26/14 (Tue) 13:19:12 No.16222>>16229>>16230

>>16200
How did you find a teacher and were they part of some 'school of thought', as in, were they yogis or lamas or bhikkus or 'general' occultists?

I do not think there are any teachers in my country, aside of visiting Buddhist monks and yoga teachers. I hope to study under one some day.

08/26/14 (Tue) 13:51:02 No.16223>>16224

RHP/SHP dichotomy is western bullshit.
If you see someone claiming that you got to be this "good" according to his moral perceptions to practice magic, then he's bullshitting you.

08/26/14 (Tue) 13:51:51 No.16224

>>16223
>SHP
LHP*

08/26/14 (Tue) 17:36:11 No.16229

File: 1409074571579.jpg (102.82 KB, 1024x768, Rainbow OM.jpg)

>>16219
Not really. It's hard to make someone see this, if they still want these things. But the power, fame, wealth, women, etc. are really the biggest traps that keep us in Samsara. Why would you help keep others trapped when you knew that, not just because you read it somewhere but because you had literally transcended those desires yourself? If you showed that skill off, you'd bring about much suffering. There's a bigger picture than just doing whatever you want here in 3rd density.

You would either let them be to figure it out on their own (perhaps taking several lifetimes), or try and point them in the other direction, no? I forgot to explicitly make this point initially, in my attempt to keep my posts briefer. My tendency to ramble, I guess, is not always so bad.

Anyway, I don't claim to have zero desire for these things, but I've always had very little of it, except lust. Furthermore, I've had great success gradually purging myself of that lust, and the residuals of the other desires, in the past 6 months or so. Using sungazing, studying/implementing yoga sutras, and supplemental texts like IIH.

It's now borderline disgusting to me to think of completely anonymous casual sex, and even a random hookup with someone I know but don't have feelings for would be pointless imo. And this is all without anything extreme like the 'rotting fleshbag' meditation, which I believe was originally intended for those that seriously had a problem with lust. I find the female form attractive just like an expensive car is generally pleasing to look at. But just as I don't lust after Ferraris due to their impracticality, I don't lust after beautiful vapid women because of their shallowness. I take time to evaluate the whole; I don't think I can even be attracted by only visual appeal anymore. But intimacy/love is appealing nonetheless.

If I found one with a solid character and sense of spirituality, well, hello future waifu. Assuming there was mutual attraction, of course. I would never enchant someone to love me because "do not break another's free will" is literally the only universal spiritual law. Also, not so coincidentally, lines up with the Ethical imperative in Chaos Magic (though I'm sure it's distorted in interpretation at times by those who are more LHP in their views).

I think the below could be useful:

Yoga Sutras, in well-written text with diagrams
http://swamij.com/yoga-sutras-10104.htm
Videos taught by Swami Rama (also has Upanishad and Sri Vidya Tantra)
https://www.youtube.com/user/swamiramahimalayas

>>16042
How does that shit on STO? It basically says "Hermeticism is the harder, more fulfilling way". And also implies it has its pitfalls just like any other system. I think you may be twisting the source material there. Stellar Man is on my reading list so I will have to get back to you on this if you do respond.

>>16222
Nice trips. I second the question and eagerly await the answer. Been hoping to find someone to personally discuss things with and/or study under for a while. No clue where to start.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/26/14 (Tue) 18:50:59 No.16230>>16231>>16239

>>16215

You can't just decide that someone is lying because you don't like what they're saying. If you have evidence that Bardon's teachings are in some way faulty, then by all means, but throwing around baseless accusations just makes you seem petty and childish.

>>16222

I contacted the author of an article I read which resonated especially strongly with me and eventually began studying under him and his senior students.

There are teachers of some variety everywhere, you can find them in martial arts dojos, buddhist monasteries, meditation centers, etc etc. They might not all be magicians, or be adepts, they might only be somewhat further along the path than yourself, but if they can teach you how to meditate, develop your mental/astral/physical bodies, rid yourself of negative traits and replace them with positive ones, and grow closer to God (or whatever conception of him that they have), then they have something to offer. And eventually, if you devote yourself sincerely to your practice and your self development, and if you remain open to possibilities, and you look for people who know things you want to know and can do things you want to do, you will find a master who can guide you as far along the path as a person can be guided.

The old saying "when the student is ready, the master will appear," is somewhat trite, but true. The universe and those intelligences which watch over the lives of mortals know when someone is ready to begin down the path, and if you look, they will make sure you find the teacher you need, even if that isn't necessarily the teacher you thought you wanted.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/26/14 (Tue) 18:54:06 No.16231

>>16230

And of course in the meantime there's no harm in studying Bardon and other authors in the meantime (I practiced Bardon for a year before finding a teacher), although Bardon is the only practical author I can recommend universally in good conscience.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/26/14 (Tue) 19:14:19 No.16232

>>16217

You summed it up pretty well. Plenty of Adepts use their powers to help people, or to demonstrate to their students (either to help their development, to help them learn a particular technique or to help alter their perception of the nature of reality - Bardon demonstrated to a lot of small groups, and for a while even publicly, to open people's mind to the idea of spirituality, others have done the same, though some take oaths to not demonstrate in front of strangers, or the public, it depends on the lineage), but this is always driven out of a sense of service. They don't show off meaninglessly just to gain fame and fortune, and they don't use their power for attaining material wealth and pleasure, because they don't need it and are beyond wanting it.

"LHP" types are beyond seeing this, because what drew them to the occult in the first place isn't the practice itself, but the seeming possibility of an easy path to their material desire. The irony is that, in reality, it is far easier to attain these desires through material means. Even if it was possible for an adept to use spiritual power to seduce any woman he wanted (that is to say, someone somehow reached adepthood without growing beyond the desire for meaningless satiation of lust), it would take years of training for hours daily, a complete revamping of your lifestyle, to reach the stage where you could develop the ability, and then more time training to actually train that specific power.

By contrast, becoming attractive to women by getting a decent job, going to the gym, wearing nice clothes and grooming yourself properly, will gain you as much casual sex as you want, given the promiscuity of most people in the western world these days - and all of that could be done within a fraction of the time it would take to develop the ability to seduce women through spiritual power.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/26/14 (Tue) 20:15:09 No.16233>>16239>>16348

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>>16185

Ok, reading list:

Initiation Into Hermetics of course, and I'd recommend going ahead and reading the theory sections of Practice of Magical Evocation and Key to the True Qabalah, they're much more extensive than the theory sections in IIH, and while parts might not make sense, they will still teach you a lot about the nature of the spiritual universe and spiritual entities, and the practice of constructing magical formulas, which is what real Qabalah is (the Tree of Life is just the background cosmology, unfortunately the Rosicrucians didn't have access to proper Qabalistic training, just a few introductory texts, so they mistook the Tree of Life for the whole of Qabalah, when it's really just the Jewish mystical cosmology).

The real Qabalah actually originated in Egypt, in the ancient world Egyptian magicians were famous for being able to use magical formulas to create fantastic effects, which is why Egypt gained a reputation as the land of magic, and why their magic was known as 'heka,' literally translating as 'naming' or 'speech.' The Jewish people picked it up (through Moses, apocryphally), and passed it down in a secret lineage among a small portion of their priesthood. Anyway, I'm rambling.

Also the IIH Companion by Rawn Clark, and the Commentary by Frater Veos. Both will make IIH significantly easier to understand and to work your way through. Clark's is more theoretical and Veos' is more practical, both are worth reading in full.

I don't feel comfortable recommending any other practical texts alongside IIH, since it contains everything you need and a lot of other texts will just confuse you, or you'll end up performing practices from too many different systems, or that aren't energetically compatible (I made this mistake, and it caused more harm than good).

For theory I'd recommend:

The works of Algis Uzdavinys, a recently deceased scholar who studied theurgy and philosophy. Especially:

The Golden Chain: An Anthology of Platonic and Pythagorean Philosophy

Philosophy as a Rite of Rebirth: From Ancient Egypt to Neoplatonism

The Heart of Plotinus: The Essential Enneads

Philosophy and Theurgy in Late Antiquity

Orpheus and the Roots of Platonism (The Matheson Trust, 2011)

These will be be real eye openers if you've ever taken a Philosophy 101 course in school or university, as modern "philosophers" tend to ignore the fact that the ancient Greeks who founded what they call "Western Philosophy" were strong mystics, and many of them practicing magicians. They find this very uncomfortable, since modern academia doesn't accept anything other than materialist reductionism, so they leave it out of their accounts of the Greeks and their philosophy entirely, outrageously misrepresenting them.

Theurgy, or the Hermetic Practice, a Treatise on Spiritual Alchemy - E.J. Langford Garstin. An interesting book, but be careful taking him too seriously compared to other sources, for reasons you'll find out if you read about the life of the author. However it still contains a lot of solid information and is worth at least giving a chance.

Three Books of Occult Philosophy - Agrippa. A bit dense in the reading, but good source for the background knowledge and cosmology you'll need.

The Corpus Hermeticum

The Emerald Tablet of Hermes - NOT "The Emerald Tablet of Thoth (sometimes "Thoth The Atlantean)." The Emerald Tablet of Hermes is a short set of hermetic and alchemical principles dating back to, as far as we can trace it, the 8th Century, but almost certainly based on or taken from older texts. The "Tablet of Thoth," by contrast, is a new age fakery supposedly received by channeling, and is full of nonsense.


The Hymns of Orpheus

The Enneads

Nicomachean Ethics

Plato's Republic

The Illiad and the Odyssey (both of which contain strong theurgic parables hidden inside them)

I won't make any specific recommendations here, since there's so much out there, but reading as much as you can on Greek and Egyptian mythology until you have a good grasp on both is a good idea, as it will give you the mythos within which they hid a lot of parables and teachings.

Norse mythology is also a good idea (although far from essential) if you have the time and interest, as the Norse cultures had their own mystery schools hidden within their priesthoods, and so their mythology contains many of the same lessons and parables. Being of Northern European descent, I have a personal interest in Norse mythology, and the parallels to what I'm taught about the lessons hidden in Greek and Egyptian mythology constantly blow my mind, for two cultures so separated by time and distance. It's a great example of the universality of the true spiritual mysteries.

Finally, I'd recommend delving into Eastern philosophy, especially Taoism (if nothing else, read the Tao Te Ching - I keep a copy of it on me wherever I go), which has remarkable similarities, both cosmological and practical, to hermetic theurgy. The Upanishads are a good idea also.

08/27/14 (Wed) 12:03:35 No.16239>>16240>>16254

>>16233
>>16230
Thank you for your answer! I am happy for finding a teacher.

Thank you for recommending books, however I need your input. About Hymns of Orpheus, is Thomas Taylor the 'author' of the edition you have? Did you read Samuel Butler's prose edition of The Illiad and the Odyssey?

08/27/14 (Wed) 12:04:23 No.16240

>>16239
I meant to say that I am happy for YOU for finding a teacher.

Quick Reply Spoiler Image Hide i 08/27/14 (Wed) 20:21:04 No.16254

>>16239

Yes, on Taylor, and he's the one recommended to me.

Iliad and Oddyssey I read the E.V./D.C.H. Rieu Translations (The Penguin Classics version). Those were just the versions I had sitting on my bookshelf from when I took some Classics courses in University, but they worked fine for me.

And thanks. Like I said, everyone finds a teacher if they keep working towards their spiritual growth and they keep an eye out. The universe doesn't leave these things to chance.

08/27/14 (Wed) 21:39:57 No.16261>>16287>>16291

>>16030
>If you are practising the RHP or White Magick because you think it's more powerful and not because it's your nature to be benevolent, you're garbage anyways

Most people aren't benevolent at all, not even the "good guys."

When we're kids, we're taught that good always wins and evil always loses, but that's backwards. It's actually, the winners are good and the losers are evil. Might makes right, right?

08/28/14 (Thu) 06:39:57 No.16287

>>16261
If "good" equates to "become comfortable with being at the mercy of everything and everybody around you" and "evil" equates to "do what thou wilt," then yeah, "evil" always wins and rightfully so.

08/28/14 (Thu) 13:32:57 No.16291

>>16261
How fun of you to say that. Yesterday I read about 'Might makes right', and today you made this post.

08/30/14 (Sat) 19:32:53 No.16348>>16364

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>>16233
Many thanks. You are a literal gentleman and scholar. My reading list has been topped up yet again.

I especially like the idea of carrying the Tao Te Ching. Could just put it on my phone. For some reason Eastern philosophy and spiritual works tend to resonate with me more, but I haven't gotten too far into Greek or Egyptian stuff. Need to, though, and will.

I was the one who posted the Sutras/ Upanishads up there but I admit I haven't delved into them yet. Need to just take a break from posting and read.

Also happy 'birthday' to Ganesha
Pic related for black magic users.

08/31/14 (Sun) 08:45:31 No.16364

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>>16348
Eastern philosophy resonates with me, too, and Buddhism is where I started spiritual journey!
I've thought I need to teach myself Zen Buddhism and Taoism, so Tao Te Ching seems like a great book to understand them. I will check out Gia-Fu Feng's translation because it feels the right one for me (thought it is said that it is the best to own multiple translations!). Anyways, here's some different translations I found online, I hope this list helps people to decide what version they want to read;

——-

>Mitchell
"When a country is in harmony with the Tao,
the factories make trucks and tractors.
When a country goes counter to the Tao,
warheads are stockpiled outside the cities."

>Victor Mair
"When the Way prevails under heaven,
swift horses are relegated to fertilizing fields.
When the Way does not prevail under heaven,
war-horses breed in the suburbs."

>Addiss & Lombardo
"With TAO under heaven
Stray horses fertilize the fields.
Without TAO under heaven,
Warhorses are bred at the frontier."

>Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English
When the Tao is present in the universe,
The horses haul manure.
When the Tao is absent from the universe,
War horses are bred outside the city.

>R.L.Wing
When the world possesses the Tao,
Even fast horses are used for their dung.
When the world is without the Tao,
War-horses are raised in the suburbs.

——-

I've also enjoyed Platonic, Gnostic and Hermetic traditions. They have a lot in common, most likely because of their Egyptian origins.

Hear, >>16348, Stoicism has some parallels with Buddhism and you might want to check it out. There's also great differences. Wikipedia page for it is quite a good start. Maybe it will help you to get in Greek philosophy?

>"Man is disturbed not by things, but by the views he takes of them." - Epictetus
>“In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true.” - Buddha

I will be reading two books on Egypt;
"Egyptian Mythology" by Geraldine Pinch, and "The Literature of Ancient Egypt" by William Kelly Simpson and other authors. I will possibly review them and see if I'd recommend them to others.