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Everything will be fire. | Fringechan via Tor: 73ryh62wtiufgihc.onion

File: 1405933353031.jpg (20.64 KB, 315x296, carl12.jpg)
No. 14334
Considering that there are various different opinions on the demiurge, some more vocal and aggressive than the others, I feel it is now time to have another discussion on the subject.

The last time we couldn't find any common ground on the subject. I hope we can have a proper discussion that ought to benefit us all. To get us started I'll ask few questions.

>Does the demiurge exist? What is its purpose? What does it do? Why do you think so?


>What is its nature like? Is it neutral, benevolent or malevolent? Or something else? What is its relationship to humankind? Why do you think so?


>Does it act consciously? Or does it act without awareness? Or something else? Why do you think so?


>Is matter good? Is matter evil? Or neutral? Or none of those? Or something else? Why do you think so?


EDIT.
No.14335
File: 1405934398106.jpg (101.88 KB, 725x1101, 1370606883015.jpg)
>implying I won't keep coming back to this thread to express divergent opinions, sow discord, and ensure there is no agreement

No.14336>>14362>>14375
>Does the demiurge exist? What is its purpose? What does it do? Why do you think so?

It exists in the sense that physicality exists. Its purpose is to perpetuate physicality. What it does is create physical constructs. Why I think so is because any plane of thought will develop a demiurge after awhile.

>What is its nature like? Is it neutral, benevolent or malevolent? Or something else? What is its relationship to humankind? Why do you think so?


Neutral / passive. It can't be benevolent or malevolent as it has no intentions. It is blind. Humanity feeds into the demiurge and every human's soul is like a little demiurge.

>Does it act consciously? Or does it act without awareness? Or something else? Why do you think so?


No it acts blindly. It has no awareness. It lacks spirit and is a parasitic thoughtform.

>Is matter good? Is matter evil? Or neutral? Or none of those? Or something else? Why do you think so?


Matter is antagonistic towards spirit so it's pretty much evil if it's too dominate but at the same time it's a necessary evil to give our minds form and condition them into something meaningful.

Matter is just condensed thought btw, created out of mental repetition. Our physical bodies are merely being thought into existence and if you do certain really extreme forms of meditation that really detach your soul and etheric body your physical body, the physical body will die and start disintegrating until you get back out of the void and get back into your body and when you're back in your body, your body feels really cold and clammy and stiff and your heart starts pumping hard again, but it will get better soon.

No.14337
>6 These are the Archons of Gnostic lore, not the Demiurge itself. But they are often equated with the Demiurge since they hold high reverence for the corrupted Demiurge and carry out its will. They worship the Demiurge because through it, they are endowed with the power to manipulate timelines, alter the world, and have dominion over their enslaved subjects. In the Cassiopaean Transcripts, the Demiurge was named “Ormethion” and was identified with the physical universe in a pantheistic sense. Ormethion was said to be the deity that Reptilian aliens worship. Its root “orm” comes from Greek “hormes” which, according to theoi.com, “was the spirit (daimon) of impulse or effort (to do a thing), eagerness, setting oneself in motion, and starting an action.” You can see how this ties into demi-“urge”. The term also relates to “hormone” which is the primary biological avenue through which the spirit is continually subjugated by the body. We are in the grip of these so-called Archons. They are aliens to which earth is but a cattle farm. We are products of their genetic manipulation, birthed into a world whose history has been altered by their timeline manipulation. Through abductions we are tagged, monitored, and programmed. If there weren’t a divine side counterbalancing all this, we’d all be doomed. But fortunately the future is still up in the air, and thus a grand battle is being waged with a dramatic climax occurring relatively soon.

No.14362>>14363>>14364
Through introspective meditation, I have been made aware that I am a lion, and I am constantly being told I am "The King".

>>14336

Now this, as you explained the Demiurge, seems to put my personality in pretty well. I find that people are great when I am around them, but as soon as I avert my gaze they fall apart into disarray.

How possible is it that I am a Demiurge, or at least a fragment of it?

No.14363>>14364
>>14362
Not him but I doubt you're the Demiurge, most likely you're a highly evolved soul that was incarnated as a king in one of your past lives.
The ability to keep order is the one aspect you seem to have retained from that life.

No.14364>>14369>>14371
File: 1405990337777.jpg (220.53 KB, 720x479, 1370654854138.jpg)
>>14362
>>14363
>all this disinfo

You guys don't even know what you are and what the nature of reality is damn.

Read: http://montalk.net/gnosis/171/corruption-of-the-demiurge

Then read: The Holographic Universe.

1. Every human soul is a little demiurge fragment.
2. Your true identity is a spirit which wears minds and bodies like gloves, you are a divine fragment of The All, and also linear time is not the ultimate reality. If you want to know what it's like to be an animal, or a rock, or another person you can think of – you can because you are all of them. You are every lifeform, every mind, etc. or as one anon told me many years ago when I still didn't understand "you are the universe". It's just a matter of how fragmented your awareness is and where you place your awareness at a given moment.

Next time you hear some voice or other entity telling you something like "you are a lion and a king" don't just accept that uncritically you silly ninny. It's only a half-truth which means absolutely nothing if you don't have the full knowledge of the experience retained and active in your mind. Elementals will tell you all kinds of bullshit and try to provoke false pride, hubris, etc. in you by trying to make you think you're special.

No.14369
>>14364
I am skeptical of Montalk, but it's a good read nevertheless.

No.14371
>>14364
Very good article, though quite scattered in focus. I'd really like to see how the Demiurge was followed, at least religiously.

No.14375>>14379
>>14336
Interesting, any NON-MONTALK source on this?

No.14379
>>14375
Your mom.

No.14383>>14450
File: 1406081576269.jpg (151.58 KB, 800x565, 1354157388353.jpg)
>>14334
>>Does the demiurge exist? What is its purpose? What does it do? Why do you think so?
It exists. Its purpose is to abuse itself and anything in its sight for the purpose of a nonsensical lie of 'evolution.' It does this because it knows nothing else.

>What is its nature like? Is it neutral, benevolent or malevolent? Or something else?

Its nature is as less than animal, for the animal can excuse actions without conscience or empathy by lack of knowledge; the subcreator-thing has no such lack, having all the information necessary to realize its own futility, but it does not, ignores it, and continues the farce of being. It is malevolent, as it glories in sadism and worship beaten out from its contemporaries, or attained by the use of split consciousnesses as 'adversaries' to abuse man, animal-man and clay-man. Samael or Satan, they are the same, there is no difference between these consciousnesses and the subcreator.

>What is its relationship to humankind? Why do you think so?

Its nature is as a guard dog, whip-holder, slavedriver, preacher of its own nonexistent glories and holder of poisoned knowledge. If Lucifer is the serpent in the positive sense, who liberated Man from ignorance of his higher place and calling, first through his partner and then through him, then Yaldabaoth is the bad serpent, whom tried to tear away Lucifer-Christ from his mission against Yaldabaoth's Synagogue.

>>Does it act consciously? Or does it act without awareness? Or something else? Why do you think so?

It acts with a conscious and calculated malevolence, beyond the ken of any man who has not had a certain enlightening 'click' of universal understanding, but its consciousness, however large, is finite. Arbitrarily large, and unbounded, as much as he can imagine, but some infinities are simply abstractly and arbitrarily larger than others. So, even if he is conscious, he can also be said to be unaware, because he is a futile, impotent, malevolent and stupid creature compared to his contemporaries.

>Is matter good? Is matter evil? Or neutral? Or none of those? Or something else? Why do you think so?

Matter is as much evil as it is good. As above, so below; black is intertwined with white is intertwined with black is intertwined with white. Male-female and positive-negative. All the more reason to annihilate it.

It begins in the lower reaches. The destruction of the matter-spheres, of sockpuppet races of clay and shiftless, purposeless animal-men, of soulless things and spiritless things. Then, up to other reaches, to things without bodies, without matter-consciousnesses, but still coherent beings. And they are swallowed up.

The purpose of this malevolent universe is to be annihilated, but looking outwards and upwards to the other places, why should they not be destroyed, too? Are they not collaborationists? Have they not abided by our suffering, undertaking only the minimal actions, or the maximal actions, or undertaking all possibilities instead of only those which are good?

Yet even if this were to come about, and it has, without evil, good has no relevance. Consciousness will descend into idiocy, to a shiftless, happy feeling with no meaning and no care, forever, just as awful as the opposite extreme of eternal and pointless suffering so horrid, so lacking in relief that no one will have any awareness of what is going on, desensitized by the passing of arbitrary time.

The infinitive worlds are a series of games by imbecile-consciousnesses too stupid to realize their own futility, above and below. It would be nice if they would all be quiet, and still, peaceable and calm in nonexistence. There will be no need for black or white principles when we have gray to serve as placeholder to both.

No.14386
>Does the demiurge exist? What is its purpose? What does it do? Why do you think so?

>What is its nature like? Is it neutral, benevolent or malevolent? Or something else? What is its relationship to humankind? Why do you think so?


>Does it act consciously? Or does it act without awareness? Or something else? Why do you think so?


>Is matter good? Is matter evil? Or neutral? Or none of those? Or something else? Why do you think so?


http://montalk.net/gnosis/171/corruption-of-the-demiurge

No.14450>>14493
>>14383
DEATH TO THE DEMIURGE!

ANNIHILATE ALL CREATED THINGS!

No.14479>>14503>>14677
>>14334
mundane here.

IS there any actual proof of the demiurge existing? ( I'm not asking for necessarily physical proof)

No.14493>>14504
>>14450
Your mistake is in thinking that we must annihilate only those things which were created, emitted and centralized to so-and-so consciousness. All consciousnesses lead back to the One, the Monad, which is the overcreator of the subcreators. Thereby, he is guilty of the creation of every single other evil, and the creation of every single other good cannot outweigh that. The two are perfectly weighed against one another. Change one side of the scales and they'll wobble about until equilibrium is found. The solution is to have neither scales, nor weights, nor one to manipulate either. We cannot merely destroy the created, we must destroy the uncreated also.

No.14503
>>14479
All of physical existence surrounding you is proof of the demiurge.

No.14504>>14520
>>14493
How can we even destroy the uncreated though?

Fuck this is depressing.

No.14520>>14533
>>14504
The world is, like most narratives, created by fiat. Many worlds nonsense provides for all possibilities and impossibilities, there is nothing that is not, only that which we are relatively incapable of perceiving. The extent and detail of the devices used to show the individual narrative vary, but any universe or multiverse is created purely by fiat, and often by a creation myth.

"And then God said, 'here is donut.' And donut was good. God then ate the donut, and that was pretty much the end of it."

Stupid, simplistic, but demonstrative of the root of the issue. It has been described, it now exists as thoughtform and pocket reality, though with the present devices I have I cannot directly interact with it nor take the place of God in the experiential, but the universe is most certainly created, as the possibility exists for it to have been created, therefore it has been somewhere, when, why, and how.

Every great thing anyone has imagined has been, and so has every terror. What rot it is that we allow everyone and thing to create in this reckless, disjointed, impersonal fashion, in addition to the myriad evils we do to one another in our relative physical worlds. And so one imagines an entitized end or bringer of the end to every single narrative, starting somewhere-when-why-how, who will neutralize the myriad realities, replace God, plug the whole from which God might come again with a gray-pixel fiat of placeholder something-nothing, and then annihilate himself before he has second thoughts.

tl;dr, we simply do it. The relative impossibility means nothing when, in another universe, and therefore potentially this one, it is not impossible. Linear time and causality are also no obstacle, because fiat simply doesn't care. The law is bent around the command, not the other way around. So until such a time as the way is paved for fiat, it's a lot of sitting, thinking, and doing nothing useful.

And take off that stupid satanist flag, you cunt. Satan is the face of Samael who is Yahweh who is Yaldabaoth, imbecile-consciousness-'god' of this world. He will not aid you.

No.14533>>14536
>>14520
Do you think the extinguishing of all desires would end the cycle? Also is your narrative her concerned only with personal salvation or the extinguishing of this abomination completely and for everyone?

Keeping the flag on for this thread but will take it off later.

No.14536>>14607
>>14533
The extinguishing of all desires would be a temporary end. The nonsense that is nonlinear multiversal chronology and constant dreaming & renarratization of new worlds is, unfortunately, going to see to the start of a new one or continuation of the old one.

End one cycle, and that end will split off at two points, one where it ended, and the other where it did not, and a new one began anyways. Kill everything and one, even God, extinguish the stars and reduce all the base matter to naught, and God will simply come in again from nothing, make Light, and see that it is/was good.

The problem, then, is in the fact that there is an existence/illusion of choice by way of multiple branching paths in the existence of everything, some sensical and others nonsensical, but all in some fashion extant. The only constant is that some beings have a power to narrate, or are granted one, or find it, speak a language of creation.

If you're an Elder Scrolls fan, the concept of CHIM might be familiar to you, and that is roughly what I refer to. The theoretical/metaphysical/narritivistic concepts are the same, more or less. And what typically occurs when a being becomes reader-narrator in this fashion, gains outer perspective, is that he simply stops being a part of the story, poofs out, seeing no point in taking the nonexistent exercise further, a zero-summing of realizing that one and all is projection instead of reality. Others will remain extant, proclaiming that they are the projection and reality, sit down, and take a long view or else none, no longer an actor in the story, but instead a cornerstone of it.

So, somewhere, someone, somehow- as has already occurred, though we have yet to see it- must, when the World and Multiverse tells him to either move or sit the fuck down, he tells existence to stuff it, and makes IT disappear. The zero-sum must be reversed; man cannot be made to disappear, the world must instead. Then, as Narrator, he proclaims that no stories are, because they are badwrongfun, nor will they ever be again.

The insufferable habit of something filling the void of nothing has led me to the point that this is an imperfect method and process; once there is only one conscious Self in everything, one will likely become a new godhead by will, or fall asleep and dream, also becoming a new godhead. If one becomes as a Buddha and sits in complete tranquility and without desire for eternity (arbitrary length of time) then they will eventually grow tired of their accomplishment, descend, and become a new godhead. As long as there is one being left, he will be inclined to eventually become the One. And if he destroys himself utterly, then, rather arbitrarily, one might imagine that the Multiverse will bend and warp and break, and a new One will simply be created, spontaneously, as in certain interpretations of Genesis. An uncreated God.

That means that we have a man who will become God, and thus fuck everything up, or a nothing-something that will shit out God, and thus fuck everything up. Neither can be allowed. So, instead, the last one out the door must create a something-nothing to prop it shut, a final matter and universal something that is really nothing of substance at all. A monopoint, or perhaps a perfectly intertwined black-white point. Either way, its appearance is very much gray. This point will contain nothing besides itself, be nothing besides itself, have no subgradients, no microcosm or macrocosm, nothing. It is, besides the sole remaining Self, the only thing that exists, as all other things have been narrated, fiat'd out of existence.

It cannot change; it cannot move; furthermore, there are no dimensions in which it may move up, down, or aside; it is eternally locked in place with no other place to compare it relatively. It is pure, absolute stasis, just as the present multiverse is at the highest level, but unlike the present multiverse is devoid of levels in the first place. It's just there. A single point, a pixel, the tiniest thing imaginable, just like one looking out or in on the universe or at any atom might conclude, only this one does not contain anything greater, nor can it gain the capacity to, nor can such capacity be imposed. With such a something-nothing in place, there is no room for the nothing-something to manifest. As a result, the final Self may safely commit suicide by narrative annihilation, and poof out of the sole remaining existence.

From this point on- or more accurately, at this point, because there is no longer a linear or nonlinear passage of time, no more infinitive frames of every angle, just a single of both- nothing evil may happen ever again, because nothing may happen. Actor and source of actor are both permanently indisposed, or rather, never were existent in the first place, as all has been bent and warped to match the new state of being. The final, end result of search from liberation of the tragedy and futility of being, the logical extent of gnosticism once one dashes away all that nonsense about 'peace,' 'love,' 'universal happiness' and 'oneness with the all.' Poppycock. Yaldabaoth preaches the same nonsense on a lower level and with lesser means, why would higher things be any more sincere than this imbecile?

The fact that no good may happen either is of no consequence, as I have generally seen it said that a lack of evil pressed upon oneself is 'good enough.' Who needs black or white when one has gray?

No.14607>>14628
>>14536
I don't like this thought experiment any more. To be quite honest, stasis scares the shit out of me if I let my mind dwell upon it and let the feeling come out, and I'd rather be tortured for eternity / experience ANYTHING so long as it is something then be forced into nothing.

I just hate the demiurge because to me it represents physicality and all its awful limitations but I like the astral planes much more.

Your scenario is worse than physicality, it literally gives no choices whatsoever, no medium for expression, it's like you're aiming to create an absolute matter.

No.14628>>14632
>>14607
Ah, a thought experiment. That's what it was. Yes.

Why do you worry so much? I mean, really. The mind is a thing of much sanctity, and its ruination is a rather disgusting affair. In Hell, you will be tortured until nothing matters to you at all; in Heaven, you will faff about in complete irrelevant bliss until everything turns to unthinking mush. Either scenario will likely lead to remaking, recycling, and thrusting back into the fold of some narrative or another. Within the narrative, it might be said from this perspective that one usually splits the difference between the two extremes. Nothing of the greatest substance is worth it, or else it does not last. These choices are worthless, and worthless choices are not to be taken.

If the ruination of the mind is so horrible, and in this case- all cases- unavoidable, then there is no reason for one to persist beyond preventing ruination of the mind. And if the mind's existence means that it will inevitably be ruined, then there must be no mind. No mind to glory in God and all his fanatical jealousy, no mind to glory in the self and rape the consciousnesses of the masses into mindless posthumanist submission for the purpose of a limited preservation, no mind to feel fear, or pain, or joy, or love, or anything. Everyone must be purposeminded, and only purposeminded in the highest sense, as all other purposes are speedbumps at best and roadblocks at worst. There is no purpose in alternative choices before the final purpose is fulfilled, and no purpose in any after.

When a man who's Borgaboo'd too hard, maybe read a little too much of the Draka, tells you, 'what do you care of the posthuman condition? Their minds will be so ruined that they'll enjoy their servitude,' you would be rightly horrified. Considering the extant nature of all possibilities, these things have already occurred, all of them, and are even more horrifying therefore, as they will continue to recur. Forever. Unless one simply stops them all.

Physicality is pointless. Choice is pointless. Expression and medium are both pointless. More than this, they are actively abhorrent. Why bother with any of them when the absolute matter- that gray point- makes them all superfluous?

And besides, what do you care? By the time all is said and done, when deliverance is at hand, you won't have a mind left to rape, let alone experience the stillness of the new and only All.

I wouldn't worry about it.

No.14632>>14635
>>14628
>Physicality is pointless. Choice is pointless. Expression and medium are both pointless. More than this, they are actively abhorrent.
Finding something abhorrent is itself an expression. If you abhor something that's "pointless," you're assigning a point to it.

No.14635>>14643
>>14632
Of course it is. And the point is to eliminate the object of abhorrence entirely, since it is otherwise purposeless. The point is the elimination of otherwise-pointless abhorrent things, which means everything, including both the other expressions and the expression against them.

No.14643>>14658
>>14635
You say an object must be eliminated because it is abhorrent, and an object is abhorrent because it is pointless. But if an object is truly pointless, you would not be abhorring it, because abhorring it means it now has a point as "that which is to be abhorred."

No.14658>>14664
>>14643
Don't play logical semantics, son, it's unbecoming. Infer a little. 'That which is to be abhorred' is to be destroyed for its abhorrence, and that is the point, but more importantly the endpoint, besides the end-endpoint of ending both point and endpoint so that there's no inbetween for the abhorrent point to inhabit. The issue is that 'that which is to be abhorred' is never to exist in the first place, because it is, was and always will be abhorrent, until it simply isn't, which means it must be nothing at all. This is not rocket surgery. The abhorrent is by no means a legitimate point of existence and is not to be allowed.

No.14664>>14675
>>14658
Why not just do away with the conscious interpretation of a thing as "abhorrent"? Wouldn't that be the destruction of abhorrence?

No.14675>>14676
>>14664
That's just pretending it isn't there, and that's hardly satisfactory.

No.14676
>>14675
And what if I told you your assumption that it's there is itself pretending?
In your conscious mind, you hold an object of thought, and attached to that object of thought is another one: the interpretation that the first object is abhorrent. The object and your abhorrence to it are both ultimately thoughts you create. You give it life and form by your own thoughts. If you want to destroy the object of abhorrence, you're completely free to by not having thoughts of abhorrence towards that object, or not thinking about the object altogether.
"This is just pretending" is itself just another thought you're creating.

No.14677
>>14479
bump for proof

No.16644
File: 1409966703807.jpg (93.04 KB, 400x904, 1406161270962.jpg)
So…am i the ONLY one who thinks this looks like a Alternate Universe Nicholas Cage? Like, does no one else seriously notice an arch-cage.

No.16658
HW: Are those the ones that the Gnostikoi called the archons?

(I used the Greek term for the Gnostics.)

J: Oh… so you know about them… (The Jinn’s field brightened reflecting excitement.) The archons are not true spirits. They are mind beings, mental entities many of who were created by humans as thought-forms. Many of these function as attachments… as mental parasites.

HW: How do they do that?

J: They feed on the energy… on the attention paid to them by humans. This includes the energy generated by human belief systems. But they are not true spirits and they will cease to exist if nobody pays attention to them any more. The ones you call ‘the archons’ are those that we call ‘the deceivers,’ and like us they are not creative. But they can mimic and they can take on forms in response to human belief systems.



HW: Who or what is Yahweh-Jehovah-Allah?

J: He is the arch deceiver. You might call him the lord archon after the terminology of the Gnostikoi.

(I thought about this for several moments, then…)

HW: Who and what is the lord archon?

J: He is the arch mind parasite who has been serving as humanity’s adversary and who has been operating against humans from his beginnings.

HW: You mean that he is not the creator as so many humans believe and claim?

J: Yes. The arch deceiver cannot create anything although he claims that he can. He is an archon. He can only mimic.

HW: Why is he so powerful and why have all three of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) revered him?

J: They were all of them deceived by the lord archon. He is the arch deceiver and he derives his power from those he has deceived—from those who believe that he is the creator… that he is the Originator. But he is not.

HW: So he is not the Originator?

J: That is correct. He is the lord archon.

HW: Are the archons—the deceivers—evil?

J: No.

HW: Do they operate in the negative polarity? (This took some explaining.)

J: Yes. They encourage humans to go wrong in their behavior.

HW: Why do they do this?

J: That is their nature. They are deceivers.

HW: And what then is the source of evil?

J: Humans. The archons influence humans to err in their behavior until they reach that point where they can no longer self correct. At that point, humans create evil because that is their nature. They are creators and they have been influenced by the deceivers. They are still being influenced by the deceivers.

HW: So evil did not exist until humans created it?

J: That is correct.

HW: And is the Lord Archon is evil?

J: No. He is the arch deceiver who has operated against humanity as the adversary since his beginning.

HW: Is this why so many religious wars have been fought in the name of religion? Is this why millions of women were killed by the Church in the Middle Ages during the Great Witch Hunts?

J: Yes. The Judeo-Christian-Islamic god is the lord archon. It was his influence that manifested itself in humans with twisted minds to manifest great acts of evil. He is still doing that.

HW: You mean that he still has the power to do that again?

J: The Lord archon has no power of his own. He is not a creator. He is an archon. Humans are creators and what they create is up to them. He influences them to go into what you call the negative polarity because that is his nature.

HW: So the choice is ultimately ours?

J: That is correct. Humans can create evil or they can create its opposite.

HW: Is that how we deal with the problem of evil?

J: I do not know. That is your responsibility as humans. In my opinion, humans created evil now they must un-create it.

HW: How do we do that?

J: By creating evil’s opposite. And by changing your thoughts. The archons live in your thoughts. They are what you would call psychic vampires who feed on the energy of your thoughts and emotions. Yet humans will always have the power that comes with choice for humans are creators, but if humans allow the archons to influence them in your thinking, you humans will choose wrongly. The deceivers take delight in violence and warfare, greed and deception, competition and denial, corruption and mendacity. They encourage humans to take refuge in what you have called the negative polarity. I like this term.

9/10 would recommend:

http://www.sharedwisdom.com/article/encounter-jinn-genie-egypt




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