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Everything will be fire. | Fringechan via Tor: 73ryh62wtiufgihc.onion

File: 1400442328192.jpg (228.96 KB, 3063x2238, marinated-clams-1[2].jpg)
No. 10211
Why so much hate for the Demiurge?(USER WAS FOUND OUT AS A LOVER OF THE DEMIURGE)
No.10212>>10215
Get the fuck out. Now.

btw…
STOP MAKING SHITTY THREADS QUESTIONS GO IN QUESTIONS THREAD DO YOU EVEN READ THE BIG FUCKING RED TEXT IN THE STICKY? READ IT MUNDANE

No.10213>>10216
File: 1400443369669.jpg (725.94 KB, 1750x2482, fuck the demiurge.jpg)
demiurge is torture
demiurge is prison

No.10215>>10217
>>10212
"SERIOUSLY GUYS POST ALL QUESTIONS IN THE QUESTION THREAD DON'T MAKE NEW THREADS TO DO NOTHING BUT ASK QUESTIONS!!"

No.(DO IT FAGGOT)

No.10216>>10253
>>10213
demiurge is neutral
demiurge is structure & creation without creativity, simply, evolution

sage

No.10217>>10221
>>10215
everyone else does, you're no-one special so fuck off

No.10221>>10225

No.10225>>10227
>>10221
what makes you think you're so special to make your own thread?

No.10227>>10230>>10355
>>10225
I operate on a level of magic higher than anyone on this board.

But, I don't care about reading the sticky again (the changes are too subtle to give a damn about) and I'd rather have the answer now.

No.10230>>10231
>>10227
Just because you're "the shit" doesn't make you any more special than anyone else here. Rules abide for everyone, I don't care if you're fucking the greatest magickian ever nobody gives a damn. You obviously are a fraud because the greatest magicians never brag about it, just fuck off. Patience is key, you'd know that if you're so high and mighty.

No.10231>>10232>>10233>>10234>>10291
>>10230
You're grasping. I wasn't bragging, all I said was that I'm better than you and all the other wizards on this board. This isn't arrogance, because the majority of this board are NEETs and fail to produce results in anything past low-tier magic.

"There are only three rules here.

1. Don't post something that'll get us sent to jail (CP).
2. Create threads on topic.
3. Don't spam."

Surly you're not this stupid.

No.10232>>10235
>>10231
>…all I said was that I'm better than you and all the other wizards on this board. This isn't arrogance…

Dis nigga trollin'

Ignore him.

No.10233>>10235
File: 1400450607532.jpg (100.53 KB, 580x300, Leslie-Nielsen_580.jpg)
>>10231

Don't call me shirley.

No.10234>>10235
>>10231
*roleplayer detected*

Questions aren't on topic, fucker. If you're so 1337 get to writing articles for us.

No.10235>>10242
>>10234
Give me something in return.

And what about not being on topic?

>>10232
ar·ro·gant
ˈarəgənt/Submit
adjective
having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

I have given you a valid reason and you have not retorted. I win by default then.

>>10233
7/10 chuckled.

No.10238>>10239>>10240
I suspect the penis that made this thread is simply trying to make Masons look bad.

1. He's being a arrogant dickhead while using the Masonic tag.
2. His OP could be implying he worships the demiurge, as many people against Masonry claim.
3. He be trollin'.

He also seems Jewish. I know that's an easy thing to say online, but I'm getting a distinctly Jewwy vibe from him. His bad trolling combined with his weasely logic screams troll.

NS flag engaged.

No.10239
>>10238

Screams Jew*

Fuck.

No.10240
>>10238
This tag is not strictly for the masons.

I'm involved nor do I believe in the demiurge (something like, but not the same).

Where am I trolling? I wanted to ask a simple question and the board police wouldn't have any of that. I wanted an in depth conversation, not a one answer reply.

No.10242>>10244
>>10235
>Give me something in return.
What the fuck do you think all of /fringe/ is? I thought you were all high and mighty? Do some research your fucking self you lazy cunt.

>And what about not being on topic?

>Magic : Philosophy : Paranormal : Dreams : Religion : Occult : Symbolism : Aliens : Demons & Angels : Metaphysics : Conspiracy : Secret Societies : Mind Control : Morality & Ethics : Quantum : Qualia : Psychic Abilities

>– Anything that is fringe in some respect


Notice you don't see "questions". Stop roleplaying and go to >>>/ask/ or post in the question thread, you faggoty /x/phile

No.10243>>10244
I hate people who act all high and mighty like they're the shit. Either study with us or gtfo.

No.10244>>10245>>10246
>>10243
>Esoteric Wizardry
>/fringe/
Then show me where I can find serious wizards and not useless alchemists.


>>10242
You're a cheeky bastard, too stupid for your own good. You proposed that I should write articles, give me something in turn and I will. Go fuck yourself if you don't know how to use propositions you loser. Demiurge is directly related to Paranormal, Religionb, Occult, Quantum, and Aliens. You need to go improve your sense before you speak.

No.10245>>10248
>>10244
lol butthurt faggot.

This is serious wizardry. You just have to be sociopathic so nobody wants to help you. To be here, you gotta work with a team. You're from /x/, you're a roleplaying teenager, just get out dude and stop wasting both of our time.

No.10246>>10247>>10248
>>10244
Why don't you just read a book you faggot? Too stupid to read? There's plenty of info on the demiurge retard, here I even looked it up:

">dem·i·urge
ˈdemēˌərj/Submit
noun
noun: demiurge; plural noun: demiurges
a being responsible for the creation of the universe, in particular.
(in Platonic philosophy) the Maker or Creator of the world.
(in Gnosticism and other theological systems) a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual."


No.10248>>10249>>10253
>>10245
I've never liked /x/, nor have I ever seriously visited it. Don't project, you inbred.

>>10246
>>10247
>asking for users' opinion
>not users' opinion

Not only are also projecting your inability to read and comprehend, but you're anger is showing.

No.10249
>>10248
You make so many mistakes when you're not paying attention.

>not only are you also*

>but your*

No.10253>>10256
>>10248
You got plenty of opinions…>>10213 >>10216

Dude just fuck off if you're going to be such a sociopath.

>lelele i'm better thn all 0f u xDDD

>but i have questions

>is supposedly into the occult and better than us

>wants to know why we hate the demiurge

So… if you're so into the occult please prove it by telling me my name and favorite color.

No.10256>>10257
>>10253
I laid off being an insufferable cunt two posts in and those are aren't even answering the question.

Both describe, but don't give shit.

That's a neat trick, how about the inverse?

You will not tell me your name and favourite colour?

No.10257>>10296
>>10256
A better answer:

I've only recently discovered how to use the records and I'm a complete newb in this one aspect. I can access them, but I'm not going to waste my energy for something so trivial.

No.10285>>10289>>10293
>>10211
…because he created a lower resolution and completely shit reality that in no way measures up to anything in the astral. It's all around inferior, like a 240p video of a 720p or 1080p vid. The demiurge enslaves us in his reality preventing us from manifesting a much better experience.

>tfw no gnostic flag


No.10291>>10293
>>10231
Making threads that just ask a question when they could be put all in the questions thread is considered spam and breaks rule 3.

No.10293>>10294>>10297
>>10291
>kill discussion thread
Now come on, I added information and discussion questions.
>>10285

Why do you think that is? The source had to have made the demiurge? That means the source made something imperfect. Why? Maybe to teach lessons? How could you truly grasp the greatness of the astral if you lived in it 24/7, like all it would wear out, don't you think?

Could we be not the only ones? Other demiurges with other realms?

No.10294
>>10293
Forget about, it was for the better.

No.10295
Holy shit this /fringe/ is hilarious today.

No.10296>>10299
>>10257
If you have access to the akashic records then go discover something from the past for us that is significant and important and tell us about it.

No.10297>>10299>>10301
>>10293
No it wouldn't wear out and having to go through this bullshit just to appreciate things is stupid. Should we force everyone to starve to appreciate food, force them to have shitty eyesight to make them appreciate good eyesight, force them to lose the functioning of their legs to appreciate walking, etc.? …or is all that just a whole lot of pointless bullshit that gets in the way of us realizing more important things?

Fuck suffering this inferior realm.

No.10299>>10301>>10303>>10317
>>10296
Like what? I haven't tried timeline events, only small portions of technical information.

>>10297
We are his creations, it may not be fair, but we will do as he wishes or we will suffer. There have also been many theories that the astral is as well the demiurge's, and you will attain the next density by following his rules.

Of course this isn't fair, but life isn't fair. Might as well enjoy it and make the best of it. What awaits us?

No.10301
>>10299
>>10297
Also…

Equivalent exchange. What goes around, comes around.

No.10303>>10306
>>10299
>What awaits us?
Freedom from this shitty reality. A lot of us here are or have been suicidal for this reason.

No.10306>>10308>>10318
>>10303
I have been too, I have set deadlines if things did not get better I would kill myself. I then took the effort to change all of my problems. All of my shortcomings.

I see why I have a certain disgust with this boards inhabitants. I feel a sense of responsibility to help you all to a higher density, but you're dragging me down.

Freedom is not what awaits if you die a loser. The demiurge is looking for the best to move up. At worst you'll be reborn as an ugly women or at best your soul will be destroyed.

No.10308
>>10306
>The demiurge is looking for the best to move up.

…but the Demiurge is non-sentient, it's like an automaton receiving orders and just doing it with no thought whatsoever, it could give two fucks less about us. It's OUR duty to get to higher densities, of course we don't want to die now but when we have attained more power and after we have done our duty on this shitty realm. Some even believe Smiley is the one who will "destroy" the demiurge or at least free everyone from this earth by killing as much as he can. Who knows, what happens, happens. I'm not too worried about it as there is nothing I can do besides empower myself.

We don't need any help btw… nobody asked.

No.10317
>>10299
Demiurge is the creator of this world / the material realm / physicality he does not preside over mental realms / astral planes. If he did we'd all be the demiurge because he'd control our minds — and that would be stupid.

No.10318>>10361
>>10306
The demiurge can only chain our souls to bodies, can't destroy it, that he hasn't the power to do. The demiurge also doesn't want anyone escaping and does give a shit about merits, he just wants to keep you here, and you have to break free by rejecting him not by sucking up to him and hoping to gain his approval.

No.10321>>10322
File: 1400474858687.jpg (104.29 KB, 854x720, 1343385696017.jpg)
if the demiruge created this physical world then is he really so bad

i mean look at those clams. yum.

maybe you all are confusing the demiurge with the king of evil spirits? (aka demon king. you can say devil. they say lucifer is a devil but i think yahweh is a devil too. i dont get caught up with names)

tl;dr demiurge is cool. he creates clams and mussels, and puts sacred gemoetry in stuff (like starfish and starfruit)

p.s. maybe the king of nefarious spirits has tons of servant helpers and aliens and jews. this planet be a spiritual war zone on every street

No.10322>>10353
>>10321
>if the demiruge created this physical world then is he really so bad

Absolutely. You do realize there was already a world, many of them, and we were godlike before? The demiurge happening is like … imagine everyone had XBOX 360s but one day they were forced to downgrade to the old XBOXs. That's what it's like.

>i mean look at those clams. yum.


There are clams in the astral planes that are more vivid and taste better than here in physicality.

>maybe you all are confusing the demiurge with the king of evil spirits? (aka demon king. you can say devil. they say lucifer is a devil but i think yahweh is a devil too. i dont get caught up with names)


No he's the creator of physicality / the material realm which is evil.

>tl;dr demiurge is cool. he creates clams and mussels, and puts sacred gemoetry in stuff (like starfish and starfruit)


No he didn't. He makes shitty fake rip-offs of everything. He's like the Chinese counterfeiting your every product. That's who he is.

>p.s. maybe the king of nefarious spirits has tons of servant helpers and aliens and jews. this planet be a spiritual war zone on every street


Yeah it is a spiritual warzone but what we're fighting over are souls who don't even know they are in bondage.

Vid related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxKYfTvZFb8&hd=1

No.10338
Spirit, so-called, is only one-fifth as active in the physical world as it is in its own plane of unobstructed expression. Therefore the physical plane is simply a sphere in Nature wherein are blended four-fifths of inertia and one-fifth of activity. This does not mean that the inhabitants of this sphere are composed four-fifths of material substances but rather that the greater part of their spiritual natures can find no medium of expression, and consequently are latent. Thus the spiritual nature signified by the dot is enclosed or imprisoned within matter signified by the circle, the result being the various ensouled forms evolving through the material sphere.

— Manly P. Hall; Lectures on Ancient Philosophy

No.10339
Thus hell may be defined as the place where the light fails, or in which divine intelligence is so diluted by matter as to be incapable of controlling the manifestations of force.

— Manly P. Hall; Lectures on Ancient Philosophy

No.10349
Can we stop being autistic and just let threads be? All it does is turn mediocre threads into shit threads.

No.10353>>10360
>>10322
absolute fucking retarded, sage.

No.10355
>>10227
I bet this faggot hasn't even been to the thirteenth dimension.

No.10356>>10359>>10378>>10427
This world is what it is. You and you only make your suffering.

No.10359>>10378>>10439
>>10356
>blaming the victim

No.10360
>>10353
*butthurt demiurge lover detected*

No.10361>>10378>>10426
>>10318
Thanks for making this post, bub. Helped me a whole shit-ton in development. I now view the demiurge as an asshole instead of a neutral inert part of existence.

No.10378
>>10359
>>10356
But this is true.
>>10361
gg

No.10426
>>10361
I meant to say he *doesn't* give a shit about merit. This isn't a test, there is no learning here, our default state is omniscient so there really can't be any learning. It's just a trap we're released into, a whole lot of programmed patterns, limitations, etc.

The material plane is essentially the plane of limitations and can be identified with hell. Any kind of torture if you think about it involves some kind of limitation, some sort of violation where you aren't able to do your will. Prison limits where you can go, pain limits what you can feel by imposing itself so strongly upon you, damage to your body limits you in many ways, repeated exposure to looping phenomena is another way to torture. The spirit unbounded has no limitations, any limitation is temporarily imposed and then stripped away when desired. The demiurge tries to keep us ignorant and absorbed in its material realm all the time and so it is a manifestation of evil.

There's nothing inherently wrong with something like some pain if you can just take it away in an instant, just like standing for a moment in a prison cell is fine if you can just leave at anytime, but the demiurge is a dick who bounds us here in his universe and does everything he can to prevent us from leaving even when we sincerely want to leave. So it becomes a great struggle simply to liberate our souls from his grasp.

No.10427
>>10356
Demiurge Internet Defence Force please go.

No.10430>>10431
I wonder why so many people believe in demiurge doctrine? Montalk? Own experience? Or are you Gnostics?

No.10431>>10441>>10443
>>10430
Isn't it really obvious that the montalk concept of the demiurge is the actual truth of the matter?

No.10439>>10440
>>10359
You mean a victim of demiurge, am I correct?

You are correct, in a way.

In my view, at the moment,

we are our own demiurge; we take concepts and turn them into imperfect forms because we are imperfect. Do our bodies sense the temperature? But temperatures do not exist as we perceive them!
We project an imperfect world because we are imperfect. We are imperfect because we are our own demiurge.

There is nothing outside us that can hurt us. Nothing outside us we can blame on.

When we extinguish our ignorance, our desire, our attachment, our anger, we can become more. We will best our personal demiurge, the only one there is.

We shouldn't try to fix the world, for the world is what it is, but instead we should try to fix ourselves. That way our suffering ends.

No.10440>>10443
>>10439
Extinguishing desire is fucking stupid. You need desire to be increased to become more. All that desire must be directed towards higher attainments though.

No.10441>>10442
>>10431
If you take everything there as truth then you should also believe in karma. You can't have it both ways.

No.10442>>10826
>>10441
I never said I take everything there was truth faggot. It's specifically his concept of the demiurge which is entirely true. It really is an astral construct, a kind of artificial program, which defines the rules of this plane and is created out of consensus.

No.10443>>10444
>>10440
That is true, that is true,

wouldn't we die if we didn't desire? Without desire, wouldn't we just lie on the ground, withering away?

We need desire to join the All.

Desire is harmful when it becomes a craving and an attachment; how can a craving and lustful vessel attain salvation when it only wants to satisfy itself and its cravings and attachments? That desire is truly harmful for you.

We need to rid ourselves of unnecessary and harmful desires and attachments, such as attachment to material. However, you can live in material and own material without being attached to it.

>>10431
Montalk is full of wisdom, but is all of it useful? Is all of it really truthful?

Believe nothing until you and only you know it to be true.

No.10444>>10445>>10460
File: 1400591824767.jpg (67.99 KB, 400x365, 1300525470791.jpg)
>>10443
What is up with you faggots? I find certain concepts on there to agree fully with my own personal experiences and understanding of reality and both of you instantly extrapolate this to "he must be a mindless indoctrinated drone that accepts everything on that site unconditionally".

Is this yet another loosh harvesting attempt?

Check em' trips!

No.10445
>>10444
That wasn't my intention.

If you find something to agree with your own personal experiences and understanding, then it is useful for you and I am happy for you.

I am not here to mock fellow seekers but inspire them and give them new views they can themselves weigh; "is this useful for me?" or "Is this not useful for me?"

I am sorry.

No.10460>>10465
>>10444
You're projecting. Your own insecurities caused you to go on a rant.

No.10465>>10469
>>10460
Ok sure thing Freud.

No.10469
>>10465
I don't have that large of a forehead.

No.10478
m

No.10539>>10540>>10541
I'm confused. I thought the christian god was the demiurge.

No.10540>>10585
>>10539
The demiurge isn't the Creator. What the thinker (creator) thinks, the prover (demiurge) proves, proving being creating whatever the creator thinks.

No.10541>>10561
>>10539
>I'm confused
> I thought the christian god was the demiurge.

>smiliingEnlil.jpg


>that thread on /x/ two days ago


go check the archive, it was about Enki & Enlil.

You will regret, and should mourn should you not find it or were it not archived, it contained information.

No.10561>>10568
>>10541
At last I truly see.

Demiurge despisers are really just angsty and hate life.

This info is revolutionizing.

No.10568>>10625
>>10561
If you'd only ever been to the astral for a couple days and nights straight and then be forced to return here, it wouldn't matter how your life was here, you'd still be frustrated and probably want to cry at being back here.

No.10569>>10573>>10587
I wish gnosticism could be completely divorced from Christian faggotry surrounding it. We need pure gnosticism with no Abrahamic influence.

No.10573>>10587
>>10569
Isn't that basically what Hermeticism is?

No.10585
>>10540
D is a manifestation of the creator

No.10587>>10588>>10608
>>10569
You would have to go back in time to do that.

>>10573
Hermeticism considers the world be good, while Gnosticism considers it to be evil.

No.10588
>>10587

Hermeticists are right you know

No.10608
>>10587
>You would have to go back in time to do that.

Challenge accepted.

>Hermeticism considers the world be good, while Gnosticism considers it to be evil.


No they do not.

No.10625>>10731>>10746
>>10568
I've been to the "astral," it's not better than my life here. The astral is not a life, it is an escape.

No.10688>>10689>>10707
File: 1400869907059.jpg (222.12 KB, 979x734, qmCjwIJ.jpg)
OP is this your car?

No.10689>>10690>>10691
>>10688
Are those all Freemasonry related or are they all different occult currents?

No.10690>>10699
>>10689

Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, Shrine, York Rite, Royal Arch Chapter, Cryptic Council, Commandery, Don't know, Grotto, OES, Rainbow Girls, High Twelve, AMD, Past Master, Past Monarch Grotto, Past High Priest, Past Illustrious Master of a Cryptic Council, Past Commander of a Commandery, Demolay, the Red Cross of Constantine, and KYCH.

No.10691
>>10689
some of them are different sects of Masonry like Order of the Eastern Stars (the reveresed pentagram) and Knights Templar, mabe scottish rite

No.10699
>>10690
sheeeeiiiitttt it's like collecting badges in the boyscouts or something.

No.10707
>>10688
This Freemason that comes through my work has a Tahoe too…

No.10731>>10761
>>10625
You do not need to escape; you need to accept. When you accept, you evolve. When you evolve, you suffer the less.

Suffering can be minimalized or ended.

No.10746>>10761
>>10625
It's a fuckload better you faggot. You could even live your current life you're having except in the astral.

Behead those who insult astral!

No.10761>>10767>>10806
>>10746
You're like cavemen who just found an IPhone. This life is the best life, I would not have it any other way. I doubt you have even visited the real astral, I know I haven't. The "astral" you plebs are going into is third density shit. The real astral would leave in Nirvana; you wouldn't be such a colossal whiner if you actually went there.

>>10731
This is escapism, you're leaving this world to be in the other because you suck here. You're not any good in this one. Why would you want to reduce suffering? You're a disgrace. Suffering creates ultimate men, ubermensch if you will. If you do not welcome suffering, you will not make it.

No.10767>>10770>>10774
>>10761
>The "astral" you plebs are going into is third density shit.

Absolutely not you fucktard. The third density is physicality. In the astral I can go through fucking walls. There is no way this life is the best life, you don't know shit. I don't like this life because it has less colours, less depth, feels like a shitty blur. It's 240p compared to 720p.

No.10770>>10771
>>10767
>being a materialist

No.10771>>10774>>10775
>>10770
>implying I am materialist

I fucking hate the material planes. The astral planes are by definition the mental planes, aka, NOT FUCKING PHYSICAL.

No.10774>>10775
>>10767
No, you fucktard. The mental plane you go to is the 3rd density. You've never been to any other plane besides the 3rd. Your mentality operates on the 3rd plane. Hell, anyone can visit their subconscious and pretend to be enlightened, but few can visit a different density and come back. The only reason this life lacks your specified consistency is because you're a faggot. It's that simple. You brought this low frequency upon yourself with that shit thinking and now you want to escape and not deal with the consequences of being weak. You're a shit human and deserve to be reborn as a jellyfish.

>>10771
Look at this pleb, you don't even know what materialism is.

No.10775>>10779
>>10774
>actually wanting other sentient beings to be reduced to even more shitty forms of life

Fuck you, I don't want anyone going back a density just because of some retarded fucking morality or whatever bullshit system of judgement you use, we need to destroy this whole density and ascend everyone. Astral planes are NOT third density, you are redefining the densities, and talking a lot of bullshit.

>>10771
>Look at this pleb, you don't even know what materialism is.

It sure as fuck isn't a mental universe which is what we live in.

No.10779>>10781
>>10775
>It sure as fuck isn't a mental universe which is what we live in.

Please, I don't even know what you're saying.

>Fuck you, I don't want anyone going back a density just because of some retarded fucking morality or whatever bullshit system of judgement you use, we need to destroy this whole density and ascend everyone. Astral planes are NOT third density, you are redefining the densities, and talking a lot of bullshit.


It doesn't matter what you want, this isn't your fucking house. You don't get to shit anywhere just because you want to, you'll be kicked out/ demoted densities. Astral planes are not 3rd density, your mental planes that you visit are 3rd.

No.10781>>10786
>>10779
>Please, I don't even know what you're saying.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_consciousuniverse.htm

>It doesn't matter what you want, this isn't your fucking house. You don't get to shit anywhere just because you want to, you'll be kicked out/ demoted densities.


Who the fuck is judging besides you and what gives you the authority to decide my destiny? I ain't sucking up to no fucking gods that want me to be their puppet.

>Astral planes are not 3rd density, your mental planes that you visit are 3rd.


CITATION NEEDED. You have no reasoning that makes any sense to me, I can't fit your claims into my view of reality at all.

No.10786>>10787
>>10781
Citation on what? There are 2 claims, pick one, you plebeian.

>It sure as fuck isn't a mental universe which is what we live in.


Explain it.

>Who the fuck is judging besides you and what gives you the authority to decide my destiny? I ain't sucking up to no fucking gods that want me to be their puppet.


Our source. He is judging you for shitting in his house and being a spoiled faggot. You've been given life as a man, your options are limitless. I can tell already if you keep following this path you will be downgraded and I don't care. I'm furious with your arrogance that you can beat the source at only 3rd density.

No.10787>>10788
>>10786
Citation on your ridiculous change of the word "density" which clearly in your case does not reflect its usage on montalk. Where the hell are you getting your idea that the astral planes are somehow "third density"?

>Explain it.


Muh Kybalion.

I. THE PRINCIPLE OF MENTALISM.

"THE ALL is MIND; The Universe is Mental." — The Kybalion.

This Principle embodies the truth that "All is Mind." It explains that THE ALL (which is the Substantial Reality underlying all the outward manifestations and appearances which we know under the terms of "The Material Universe"; the "Phenomena of Life"; "Matter"; "Energy"; and, in short, all that is apparent to our material senses) is SPIRIT, which in itself is UNKNOWABLE and UNDEFINABLE, but which may be considered and thought of as AN UNIVERSAL, INFINITE, LIVING MIND. It also explains that all the phenomenal world or universe is simply a Mental Creation of THE ALL, subject to the Laws of Created Things, and that the universe, as a whole, and in its parts or units, has its existence in the Mind of THE ALL, in which Mind we "live and move and have our being." This Principle, by establishing the Mental Nature of the Universe, easily explains all of the varied mental and psychic phenomena that occupy such a large portion of the public attention, and which, without such explanation, are non-understandable and defy scientific treatment. An understanding of this great hermetic Principle of Mentalism enables the individual to readily grasp the laws of the Mental Universe, and to apply the same to his well-being and advancement. The Hermetic Student is enabled to apply intelligently the great Mental Laws, instead of using them in a haphazard manner. With tire Master-Key in his possession, the student may unlock the many doors of the mental and psychic temple of knowledge, and enter the same freely and intelligently. This Principle explains the true nature of "Energy," "Power," and "Matter," and why and how all these are subordinate to the Mastery of Mind. One of the old Hermetic Masters wrote, long ages ago: "He who grasps the truth of the Mental Nature of the Universe is well advanced on The Path to Mastery." And these words are as true to-day as at the time they were first written. Without this Master-Key, Mastery is impossible, and the student knocks in vain at the many doors of The Temple.

>Our source. He is judging you for shitting in his house and being a spoiled faggot.


Why the fuck would he care? Sounds like you're just projecting your own feelings and claiming like every other douchenozzle that god reflects your own sense of morality. For all we know the actual god probably doesn't give a shit, which very much appears to be the case, as he never does anything to correct our behaviour or anything.

>You've been given life as a man, your options are limitless. I can tell already if you keep following this path you will be downgraded and I don't care. I'm furious with your arrogance that you can beat the source at only 3rd density.


…but I'm not exclusively in 3rd density faggot. Well, I am right now as I type this to you, but I'm not always. Fuck the demiurge, there ain't no sucking up to him, it's just a program lacking any real sentience that doesn't fucking care to release anyone from its grasp. The only one that can do that is us either individually or by escaping first and then helping others escape. The demiurge don't give a fuck and if you're wasting your whole life sucking up the demiurge it'll be all for nothing.

No.10788>>10790
>>10787
I'm not changing the definition, I'm saying you're not visiting the astral, but just your subconscious. Montalk is not infallible.

>Muh Kybalion.

Ironic, that is what I've been saying. You fail to master your mind at your low frequency and your victimized line of thinking.

>Why the fuck would he care? Sounds like you're just projecting your own feelings and claiming like every other douchenozzle that god reflects your own sense of morality. For all we know the actual god probably doesn't give a shit, which very much appears to be the case, as he never does anything to correct our behaviour or anything.

I break morality and I do not agree wholesomely with it at all, but I follow it so I can win.

> as he never does anything to correct our behaviour or anything.

This one sentence makes me question if you can think critically or not. It's subtle nudging, can you read the events? Are you ready to level up?

>…but I'm not exclusively in 3rd density faggot. Well, I am right now as I type this to you, but I'm not always. Fuck the demiurge, there ain't no sucking up to him, it's just a program lacking any real sentience that doesn't fucking care to release anyone from its grasp. The only one that can do that is us either individually or by escaping first and then helping others escape. The demiurge don't give a fuck and if you're wasting your whole life sucking up the demiurge it'll be all for nothing.


You are. How can you say that? If he has no sentience how can you hate him? It's like hating an animal for being wild. There is an escape, he has to die by the hands of the other demiurges. Unlike you, I want to rank up. The demiurge will rank you up if you follow the rules and advance. You won't advance to a new density in this lifetime, it is gradual. Lessons upon lessons, lifetimes upon lifetimes.

No.10790>>10791
>>10788
>I'm not changing the definition

Yes you are. Here's the definition:
http://montalk.net/about/212/glossary#density

>I'm saying you're not visiting the astral, but just your subconscious.


You obviously don't understand the nature of the subconscious and how it connects to The All. Read The Holographic Universe.

>Montalk is not infallible.


Behead those who insult Montalk!

>Ironic, that is what I've been saying. You fail to master your mind at your low frequency and your victimized line of thinking.


Yeah yeah whatever.

>I break morality and I do not agree wholesomely with it at all, but I follow it so I can win.


You aren't going to win shit but the realization you wasted your time following a moral system that is human and which no gods give a fuck about.

>This one sentence makes me question if you can think critically or not. It's subtle nudging, can you read the events? Are you ready to level up?


Some god he is. Can't do shit, can't even fucking talk to me when I ask him to, worthless fuck. He should strike me down right now but he can't because he's impotent and useless or a neutral fuck who doesn't care what the ants (us) do.

>You are. How can you say that? If he has no sentience how can you hate him?


I hate the shitty fucking program just like I hate being forced to watch an advertisement, or having wasted my time with a shitty game, or having aten a bad meal that was burnt.

>It's like hating an animal for being wild. There is an escape, he has to die by the hands of the other demiurges.


The demiurge is held in place by our collective mental programming.

>Unlike you, I want to rank up.


Unlike you, I don't want to suck the dick of a program that doesn't fucking have the capacity to care about me.

>The demiurge will rank you up if you follow the rules and advance.


No it will not. Definitely not.

>You won't advance to a new density in this lifetime, it is gradual. Lessons upon lessons, lifetimes upon lifetimes.


Fuck that, I'm going to escape in this life.

No.10791>>10793
>>10790
I see you are set in your ways. Goodbye, you sad fool.

No.10793
>>10791
I still have no fucking idea where you're getting your ideas from. What books, sites, etc. You just randomly decide to redefine density and you have no citations for where you're getting your alternative idea of the densities.

Goodbye, faggot lover of the demiurge.

No.10806>>10811>>10825
>>10761
I haven't said anywhere that I want to escape. You seem to have different meaning for the word 'suffering' than I do.

No.10811
>>10806
I don't think he realizes he's talking to two different people.

No.10825
>>10806
"n activity or form of entertainment that allows people to forget about the real problems of life
Full Definition of ESCAPISM

: habitual diversion of the mind to purely imaginative activity or entertainment as an escape from reality or routine"

No.10826
>>10442
Eloquent as fuck.

No.10827>>10828
who's to say the ultimate power here hasn't put the demiurge as a concept into our heads as a driving force/stressor that will inevitably result in our spiritual growth and that the end goal never actually was to be bound to reincarnation endlessly or to merge with the demiurge and that those were just implanted fears to encourage us to grow?

No.10828>>10829
File: 1401070596763.png (6.5 KB, 227x191, 1358295364023.png)
>>10827
Why do we even need to grow in the first place though? It feels more like a blind creator dreamed us up on a whim and that every fragment of the source has a tendency to return to its source.

ahem I mean as last I truly see!

No.10829>>10830
>>10828
Our creator is imperfect, these tests weed out the undesirables and leave the best.

No.10830>>10840
>>10829
What could our creator possibly desire us for? What the fuck could it possibly want of its creation? How could one even apply human thinking to a cosmic intelligence of infinite power?

No.10837>>10839>>10840>>10863
Why do you believe that we were created by something?

No.10839>>10840>>10863
>>10837
Oh, and why do you believe in The All?

Just asking.

No.10840>>10841
>>10830
He desires to have great soldiers, he is an imperfect god. He doesn't know all and thus he needs this, a test for his creations. Since he cannot create the best, because he doesn't know what the best is.
>>10837
There is no uncaused cause.
>>10839
Elaborate what you mean by "The All."

No.10841>>10871
>>10840
soldiers for what purpose? To fight against a spiritual force perhaps?

No.10863>>10921
>>10837
…because my life has a beginning as opposed to just stretching back for eternity. My life was created.

>>10839
The All is the only and the most perfectly reasonable conceptualization of God.

No.10871>>10874

No.10874>>10876
>>10871
eh



can I get some more information on this

No.10876>>10879
>>10874
There are numerous demiurges with their own realms. Our demiurge needs soldiers to fight other demiurges. If our demiurge is defeated the soldiers get passed onto another demiurge.

If you fail the tests, you will retake them. You may even repeat the course from the start or suspended. Or at worst, you'll be expelled.

No.10878>>10881
File: 1401140736103.png (584.37 KB, 1400x2700, 1400808719704.png)
Relevant to discussion.

No.10879>>10880
>>10876
Wat if nobody were ever to engage in any spiritual activities? would this be a bad thing?

No.10880
>>10879
In what sense? (To both questions)

No.10881>>10882
>>10878
I remember when that thread was made it pissed me off so fucking much and I made an edit of that stupid comic explaining why it's fucking retarded.

No.10882>>10883
>>10881
Have it on you?

No.10883>>10884
>>10882
Yes… somewhere… buried in the thousands of images… or you could just go to the original demiurge thread made on /x/ and get the picture there from the archives.

No.10884>>10886>>10887
>>10883
Anything I can use to get to the archived thread?

No.10886
>>10884
"While I appreciate the fervor with which some of you are so eager to fight 'the prison' and escape and ascend and all those other righteous-sounding words…

…you really have no idea what's out there. You don't even know what's in here. You're not ready, simply put. The juvenile mindsets and understandings you're so proud of are far more efficient cells than anything a purported demiurge could create."

This guy gets it.

No.10887>>10888>>10890>>10923
File: 1401147464299.png (786.09 KB, 1400x2700, 1399884735680.png)

No.10888
>>10887
That was the method I used.

No.10890
>>10887
Yeah that's my comic.

No.10906>>10925
Demiurge sucks for keeping me from getting a qt 3.14 gf. In the perfect world even ugly neckbeard loser pieces of shit would have their dream girl.

No.10921>>10926
>>10863
What if there is no All?

I'm not an atheist, but I keep wondering.

No.10923>>10927
>>10887
wow you a whiny little bitch

why can't you just be happy with what you have

think about all of the people who are perfectly happy in this 240p world

No.10925
>>10906
>In the perfect world even ugly neckbeard loser pieces of shit

In the perfect world these individuals wouldn't even exist to begin with.

No.10926
>>10921
That wouldn't make any sense. There clearly is an All. You'd have to disregard reason to think otherwise.

No.10927>>10946
>>10923
>hurrr durrr you must pointlessly endure a shit world because some other ignorant retards who aren't aware of a higher reality accept the shit world

You're a masochist.

No.10946>>10947>>10950
>>10927
it isn't shit to them

if you keep wishing for this other world them you will constantly be discontent with the one you have now. Yearning for something other than the present moment creates unhappiness.

you're just in denial as you refuse to accept the world as it is but instead wish for something more

No.10947
>>10946
Go fuck yourself lover of the demiurge. I will escape!

No.10950>>10952>>10992
File: 1401196245724.jpg (118.94 KB, 1920x1080, cypher from the matrix.jpg)
>>10946
>it isn't shit to them

Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?
[Takes a bite of steak]
Cypher: Ignorance is bliss.

No.10952
>>10950
isn't it just

No.10974>>10975
>>10211
SO why do you people have any reason to believe that this 'demiurge' thing exists?

No.10975>>10976
>>10974
So you don't believe physicality exists? You don't believe in gravity, friction, etc.?

No.10976>>10977>>10983
>>10975
You're extremely retarded thinking that the laws of physics exist because of some deity

No.10977
>>10976
We don't know if it's a deity. Total speculation and hypothesis. If you read through the thread you would see many acknowledging that this plane and the creator of it is inert, non-sentient, etc. the demiurge exists. It is this plane of reality. The specifics of what we interpret it to be are up for debate.

No.10978>>10991
>That men,formed in god's image, have a born ability to wield the demiurge

What belief is this? I saw it in http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/14582491/

No.10983>>10991
>>10976
>You're extremely retarded thinking that the laws of physics exist because of some deity

No you idiot. Physics itself IS THE DEITY. Demiurge is physicality itself.

No.10991>>10994>>11000
File: 1401223901367.jpg (131.89 KB, 629x475, eJ42CDQMtBDGxqSU5HrmSY.jpg)
>>10978
RE: your green text

that would mean that the 'demiurge' is really the most powerful alien entity whos is the boss of this part of the cosmos. such a being would be a lion of consciousness; a master of thought and emotional energy

>>10983

this is the ancient view of ABRASAX / ABRAXAS

who agreed upon his properties?

a collective of ancient souls (aka us) ?

or the first and most powerful being aka lion of consciousness?

aka the first god… or am i the first god who got tricked by a being from the abyss. is this too confusing? maybe i should be a buddhist or something. the 12-fold chain of becoming seems more elegant. or a taoist and just go with the flow. or walk like an egyptian [flag related]. or a godless commie [so i can get bitches like this]

or a hoodoo black magician so i can make a zombie sex slave

No.10992>>10995
File: 1401224184570.jpg (27.64 KB, 494x382, lambtron.jpg)
>>10950
>yfw people like Cypher actually exist in real life
>people who have swallowed the red pill and regret it, and are actively working to shove the blue pill down your throat

Cyphers are the most dangerous people in the universe. Many of them are high-ranking Nordics.

No.10994>>10996
File: 1401224592806.jpg (814.29 KB, 684x1511, 1374726036270.jpg)
>>10991
>>10991
nevermind i changed my mind. im a smileyist


hail smiley. hes the lion of consciousness; sometimes i wanna be an idolator of womens bodies though. or a lazy hedonist who owns a harem and indica farm. are these demiurgic traps too ?? ?

:<

No.10995>>10996
File: 1401225129093.jpg (222.9 KB, 1067x1600, 1401185070225.jpg)
>>10992
the judas/traitor archetype

its always sad to me. they end up suiciding or plugging themselves back in (aka make themselves the living dead/spiritually unaware persons)

no one here is a traitor though. and i doubt anyone here has tasted the true red pill

except for smiley.i send him praise and blessings.

i wonder if he would be attracted to this jewess (slavic though, so i doubt it counts)

i wonder if being on 4chan and reading about the supreme gentleman was a demiurgic trap too, aka timesink

No.10996>>11005
>>10994
>>10995
ffs smiley

No.11000
>>10991
It's us + a lot of other entities that are in disincarnate form which maintain this reality.

No.11003>>11012
You need to understand btw that spirit can permeate mind and matter both in any number of ways.

So there can be spirits which are tapping in to your entire experience, having the full experience of your mind and body, AND also the full experience of a lot of other entities at all once. They just overlap everything and exist in a higher density (6th density).

As The Kybalion says…

"Then again, the ideal of the artist or sculptor, which he is endeavoring to reproduce in stone or on canvas, seems very real to him. So do the characters in the mind of the author, or dramatist, which he seeks to express so that others may recognize them. And if this be true in the case of our finite minds, what must be the degree of Reality in the Mental Images created in the Mind of the Infinite? Oh, friends, to mortals this Universe of Mentality is very real indeed — it is the only one we can ever know, though we rise from plane to plane, higher and higher in it. To know it otherwise, by actual experience, we must be THE ALL itself. It is true that the higher we rise in the scale — the nearer to "the mind of the Father" we reach — the more apparent becomes the illusory nature of finite things, but not until THE ALL finally withdraws us into itself does the vision actually vanish."

Higher forms of consciousness, spirits higher up the scale, can permeate our minds and bodies in much the manner that you might one night have a dream of being another person… and the setting and your actions all make sense then but when you wake up from it and remember who you are it becomes very strange indeed.

I think it very probable that we are being dreamed of, that our lives are dropped in on by other dreamers, and so any number of fragments of the infinite can have and experience our life or parts of it in any manner they please.

No.11005
>>10996
He's just a Smileyist — not Smiley himself.

No.11012>>11028
File: 1401227465728.jpg (92.42 KB, 447x550, 1371522251399.jpg)
>>11003
if theyre maintaining then theyre also destroying right. these hooligan spirits (aka us)

also that means that all planes including demiurge are always… changing…

mckenna said something like "physical reality was defined by an ancient gang of shamans who got together and had a gang war"

No.11028
>>11012
>if theyre maintaining then theyre also destroying right. these hooligan spirits (aka us)

Time for me to quote Hermes more then? Read this: ( >>3882 )

"3. For Death is destruction, but there is nothing in the whole world that is destroyed."

>also that means that all planes including demiurge are always… changing…


Yes they're always changing. What holds true and the conditions we exist under right now can be very different later on. Most views of the past as such are inaccurate because the usual way people go about looking at the past is to assume that the structure of reality is stable and that there couldn't have been epochs in which magic was common in the land and great miracles that no longer manifest themselves were so common as to be practically mundane.

>mckenna said something like "physical reality was defined by an ancient gang of shamans who got together and had a gang war"


Pretty much yes.

No.11068>>11070
>also according to gnostics, the demiurge is somewhat of an automaton built to run the universe, it really doesn't think for itself and it is deterministic BUT at the complete whims of god, and men -incarnations of god himself- can control the demiurge, they must realize this power though.

This is Gnosticism, right?

No.11070>>11074>>11166
>>11068
Gnostics thought that the demiurge has a personality - ignorant and cruel one - and it's doing what it is doing intentionally. I believe no sect taught that a man can 'control' the demiurge.

No.11074>>11165>>11174
>>11070
Time to make my own sect.

No.11165
>>11074
Watch your head. Plenty would seek to sever that concept from the people.

No.11166>>11174
>>11070

Gnosticism was pretty diverse, some groups saw the demiurge and the archons as a malevolent separation from the monad, others saw the archons as gateways to it.

No.11174
>>11074
Just keep your mind open.

>>11166
That's true. Gnosticism basically absorbed everything it touched - Manichaeism, for example, had Buddhist influences; Mani even called himself 'Mani Buddha', and Nirvana is mentioned in his memorial poem.

No.11306>>11309>>11324
>not sure if should move this thread or not since it's so huge but it is a question thread…

I'll let first person to respond to this post decide. Note a troll response that says nothing will be interpreted as an order to move it to the >>>/grave/

No.11309>>11312
>>11306
NEVER DELETE ANTYHING ONFF FRINGE EVER

No.11312
>>11309
It's not deleted. All stuff is just moved to >>>/grave/ where it'll eventually die if nobody bumps it. Go checkout the graveyard and if you see any threads you like there go post in them and try to spook someone.

No.11324
>>11306
A question that starts a successful discussion is a good thread.
This isn't something that can be answered with one or two posts.

No.16553

No.16558>>16563
People hate the demiurge for the same reason school students hate their principal. It's only when they graduate that they realize that it was just someone fulfilling a necessary job out of love for the people for whom they enforce the rules.

No.16563>>16566>>16576>>16577
>>16558
I graduated long ago and still hate school and feel it was a waste of time that stunted my development and that I would have been better without.

The demiurge doesn't teach us fucking anything, it enforces ignorance on us, when we would attain all the knowledge simply by being unleashed into the astral.

Why so much demiurge apologetics?

No.16566>>16576>>16579
>>16563

You went to a bad school. The education system in the west is broken on much higher levels, that's hardly the principal's fault. Perhaps my analogy was flawed, but the point stands.

>The demiurge doesn't teach us fucking anything, it enforces ignorance on us, when we would attain all the knowledge simply by being unleashed into the astral.


All the tools to escape material existence are right here with us on this plane, if the demiurge truly wished to trap us or harm us, he would have designed it otherwise. Instead the world was made so that only those who are ready can progress to higher states of being, while those who still have lessons to learn are bound by illusion to the material plane until they are ready to begin developing.

No.16571
The reason material world exists is because the All wouldn't be the All if material world didn't exist. All is all, and all is All - so material world has to exist because otherwise All cannot be the All.

No.16576>>16579
>>16563
Holy necrobump.

Unleashing all would allow the ones who are not ready or wise enough to learn the all.

As >>16566 said, the tools are all right here, if you really wanted to you could. If your will was great and you were ready, you could.

But are you? Would you rather have it all handed to you, instead of working and learning?

No.16577
>>16563
"NO NO NO NOT THIS BULLSHIT AGAIN.

I DID NOT CHOOSE THIS AND I DO NOT CHOOSE TO REMAIN HERE, I AM KEPT HERE AGAINST MY WILL, AND DRAGGED BACK HERE AGAINST MY WILL.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THE TERRIBLE FEEL OF BEING RETURNED TO THE BODY AGAIN AFTER A VOYAGE THROUGH THE ASTRAL DO YOU? MAKES YOU WANT TO CRY HAVING TO COME BACK TO THIS SHIT.

FUCK YCOR FALLACIES.

THIS LITERALLY CONTRADICTS YOUR PREVIOUS STATEMENT OF A "PLAN" FOR ME AS WELL.

INCONSISTENT MUCH?"

Is this you?

No.16579>>16584
>>16566
>All the tools to escape material existence are right here with us on this plane, if the demiurge truly wished to trap us or harm us, he would have designed it otherwise.

The demiurge is just a stupid blind program, it's not intelligent, and it doesn't know what it's doing. Everything it does, it does on impulse. It has no wishes for us, it's not even aware of us, it just feeds on and is supported by us.

The cycle of reincarnation is literally a fucking trap designed to keep us here in ignorance and suffering for as long as possible.

The veil also, same thing.

THERE WOULDN'T EVEN BE A NECESSITY TO HAVE TO LEARN AND PROGRESS THROUGH THIS BULLSHIT IF REALITY WASN'T SO CONSTRUCTED AT IT IS

>>16576
>Would you rather have it all handed to you, instead of working and learning?

It was MINE before it was fucking stripped away from me! We toil and work for fucking nothing, just to be struck down again & again, and repeat it all. You are a slave of the demiurge and should be ashamed of yourself for supporting that parasite. All the demiurge does is program us with false and useless knowledge and create conditions of life which are intolerable and completely adverse to any higher purpose of learning, growth, and spiritual development.

What the hell is wrong with you all? Why can't you accept that the demiurge doesn't give a shit about us?

>hurrr durrr guys you're here to learn, even though no true learning can actually take place here, all efforts to transcend involve trying to withdraw your consciousness from this plane so you can attain higher knowledge away from the material world, and you're repeatedly forced to forget everything and lose your progress from previous lives until one life conditions happen to be just ripe that at last you can build up your energy body and consciousness enough to survive the death of your physical body and finally begin the true path of learning

No.16584>>16585
>>16579
>MINE, ME

That line of thinking is selfish. The logos gave birth to us, he provides us with life and if it is his will, so it will be.

We learn lessons and if we (our self/being) are able to pass, then we are deemed worthy. Worthy to move on to the next lesson, to grow spiritually.

You are desperate to go back your self, but don't you see that we were thrown out of that realm? We were imperfect and not fit for such, for this we are tested, and with this we are molded. Molded into superior souls. The ones who pass are worthy, the ones who fail must retake the class.

Progress is not lost, nor forgotten. Material knowledge is useless in a lifetime, but not such in the next. Starting the game with a handicap or bringing a cheat-sheet to the class means you are not prepared, you are not ready and cannot successfully pass the class. If the information you so highly hold is a necessity to that life, you will gain it all back.

We all mature at a different pace; we all have a different journey and fate. Thus, my place is not to criticize and laugh, but to guide you in the right direction.

No.16585>>16586
>>16584
>hurrr you aren't allowed to possess any knowledge or power, be a slave, muh "selfishness"

Go fuck yourself.

>The logos gave birth to us, he provides us with life and if it is his will, so it will be.


I am not grateful for being made to experience this shit and ask that the logos terminate me right now, instantly, and give you a nosebleed for being such a suckup to the tyrant demiurge and to affirm the success of my termination.

>We learn lessons and if we (our self/being) are able to pass, then we are deemed worthy. Worthy to move on to the next lesson, to grow spiritually.


You are a slave that wants to be judged and tested and has had all this subliminally programmed into him probably mostly through Christian influences but not necessarily limited to such sources.

These aren't lessons you fucking faggot, we aren't learning anything.

>You are desperate to go back your self, but don't you see that we were thrown out of that realm? We were imperfect and not fit for such, for this we are tested, and with this we are molded. Molded into superior souls. The ones who pass are worthy, the ones who fail must retake the class.


No we were perfect and then had our perfection defiled by the demiurge. We aren't "tested", there are no judges, we are just slaves and individuals like you are too stupid and programmed and self-centred to realize this system isn't designed to teach and benefit you, that it's not benevolent, and you are just being fed upon by parasitic entities.

>Progress is not lost, nor forgotten. Material knowledge is useless in a lifetime, but not such in the next. Starting the game with a handicap or bringing a cheat-sheet to the class means you are not prepared, you are not ready and cannot successfully pass the class. If the information you so highly hold is a necessity to that life, you will gain it all back.


What a pathetic delusional slave you are.

>We all mature at a different pace; we all have a different journey and fate. Thus, my place is not to criticize and laugh, but to guide you in the right direction.


I will accept no judges but myself, I will not be forced to follow a contrived lifescript, I will not accept the false knowledge of the demiurge as real knowledge, and I will not begin to see the demiurge as some learning program when it is the exact opposite replacing real knowledge and spiritual perfection with defilement and ignorance. True knowledge comes not from the demiurge but from higher planes of being, by a concerted effort of the will to return to the source. You don't learn here, you learn on the mental / astral plane.

Motion away from self brings a decrease in consciousness and power; motion toward self brings a corresponding increase in consciousness and power. The farther the light ray travels from its source the weaker the ray.

— Manly P. Hall; Lectures on Ancient Philosophy

>and yet you want to chastise me for striving to regain what was originally mine in my perfected state of being before the demiurge calamity ensnared me with its ignorance and false knowledge

No.16586>>16590
>>16585
>Go fuck yourself.

Instead of treating every man as a library of concepts and knowledge, you mock me.

>I am not grateful for being made to experience this shit and ask that the logos terminate me right now, instantly, and give you a nosebleed for being such a suckup to the tyrant demiurge and to affirm the success of my termination.


I don't even believe in a demiurge (not yet, anyway), but I have read too many of your posts and you seem hellbent on this ideal. If you fail this test you might be terminated, I'm uncertain whether suicide would cause a destruction of soul or perhaps if you failed all of the tests.

>You are a slave that wants to be judged and tested and has had all this subliminally programmed into him probably mostly through Christian influences but not necessarily limited to such sources.


Christianity has it's truths, as all such traditional sources. You might come to recognize them one day.

>These aren't lessons you fucking faggot, we aren't learning anything.


That statement in itself is just proof of ignorance, or rather unwillingness to hold any view point other than your own. We learn again all that we must, humility is one such thing.

>No we were perfect and then had our perfection defiled by the demiurge. We aren't "tested", there are no judges, we are just slaves and individuals like you are too stupid and programmed and self-centred to realize this system isn't designed to teach and benefit you, that it's not benevolent, and you are just being fed upon by parasitic entities.


Some hold the ideas that this reality is for the gain of the demiurge, to craft the most perfect souls. I hold the notion that the logos is running his path.

>What a pathetic delusional slave you are.


Further evidence of my position on your mind. Perhaps you are angry because you are confused and not sure of what to think. It is much easier to hold onto something than to find something new.

>I will accept no judges but myself, I will not be forced to follow a contrived lifescript, I will not accept the false knowledge of the demiurge as real knowledge, and I will not begin to see the demiurge as some learning program when it is the exact opposite replacing real knowledge and spiritual perfection with defilement and ignorance. True knowledge comes not from the demiurge but from higher planes of being, by a concerted effort of the will to return to the source. You don't learn here, you learn on the mental / astral plane.


You are made imperfect, so you must learn to be perfect in the imperfect so that you may prove your worth. We are chained to this reality as a punishment, we indulged in the forbidden and this is the price we must pay; a "Hero's Journey" so to speak.

>and yet you want to chastise me for striving to regain what was originally mine in my perfected state of being before the demiurge calamity ensnared me with its ignorance and false knowledge


Tell me, if you are the supreme righteous will of yourself, why have you not beaten demiurge?

No.16587>>16588
Denying my knowledge and power is denying the divine nature of my being from me, I don't have to learn anything, I am already perfect.

I only need remove defilements from my being. This is a process of unlearning or doing away with false knowledge and ignorance more than it is of learning.

Purging impurities. The demiurge has nothing to teach us, it is our defiler. It is not a learning program, it is a program of imposed ignorance and illusory fracturing.

No.16588>>16591
File: 1409861402640.png (1.01 KB, 128x128, blockslesson.png)
>>16587
You are perfect, yet you are filled with defilements.

Unlearning is not the way, you must keep learning to find the truth. Having only one perspective or only one building block will cause your ideals to crumble.

Here's a pic as words alone cannot.

See how the starting blocks are muddied and dark, this shows ignorance. On top of those, are a bit brighter blocks that have colours that mix with the ones below. This shows illumination, so to speak. If one of your beliefs in the above, perfect ideals is removed, to fill in you get an abomination of the others mixed in, because that is all you have. Unlike the below, a being that is perfected, knowing why, instead of only just the truth.

This has flaws in it, but this is the quickest I could do in the allotted time.

No.16590>>16592
>>16586
>Instead of treating every man as a library of concepts and knowledge, you mock me.

No I insult you not mock you. Please self-terminate right now.

>I don't even believe in a demiurge (not yet, anyway), but I have read too many of your posts and you seem hellbent on this ideal. If you fail this test you might be terminated, I'm uncertain whether suicide would cause a destruction of soul or perhaps if you failed all of the tests.


If you don't even believe in it then stop sucking up to it and spreading misinformation that it's supposedly a teacher and a learning program when it's not, it has the very opposite effect, and all true learning, power, knowledge, growth, etc. comes from source not the demiurge.

This is NOT A TEST. It is a TRAP. There is NO JUDGE BUT YOURSELF. Look at the NDE literature yourself to affirm that last point. Maya / demiurge / physicality is an illusion held in place by defiled mind.

>Christianity has it's truths, as all such traditional sources. You might come to recognize them one day.


Oh lawd you probably don't even know I've been the first to state on this board that "within every religion are elements of the truth buried in it, alongside lots of disinformation". This does not mean I should respect Christianity at all. It is a perversion of truth. Fuck your Christnigger religion.

See also: http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/15162911/#15166629

>That statement in itself is just proof of ignorance, or rather unwillingness to hold any view point other than your own. We learn again all that we must, humility is one such thing.


I could say to you faggot that you are "unwilling to hold any viewpoint other than your own" but I'm not so fucking retarded as to make an assumption like that about you as you would do of me without knowing my past and how many times I've changed my personal philosophy as new understandings came to light.

>Some hold the ideas that this reality is for the gain of the demiurge, to craft the most perfect souls. I hold the notion that the logos is running his path.


They are retarded and can go fuck themselves too. The most perfect beings aren't created, they are eternal, and thus uncreated.

>Further evidence of my position on your mind. Perhaps you are angry because you are confused and not sure of what to think. It is much easier to hold onto something than to find something new.


No it's easier to find something new than it is to hold onto something. Change is a constant.

"Heraclitus of Ephesus (Ἡράκλειτος, Herakleitos; c. 535 BC – 475 BC) was a Greek philosopher, known for his doctrine of change being central to the universe, and for establishing the term Logos (λόγος) in Western philosophy as meaning both the source and fundamental order of the Cosmos."

"There is nothing permanent except change."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Heraclitus

Also must I quote Franz Bardon on the difficulty in fighting for and holding onto beliefs?

Also you fucking contradict yourself by saying "you are confused and not sure of what to think" then contradicting that with by accusing me of being so sure in my belief as to not change it ever.

Your fixation is so fucking stupid to begin with.

>You are made imperfect, so you must learn to be perfect in the imperfect so that you may prove your worth.


Prove my worth to what? If you are implying a something outside of myself again which I supposedly have to submit myself to, then stop that.

>We are chained to this reality as a punishment, we indulged in the forbidden and this is the price we must pay; a "Hero's Journey" so to speak.


Holy fuck when after you ever going to mature beyond "punishment, reward, proving, testing, judging, etc." it's like you're still in school or a young child. That's your mentality. The demiurge does not punish as it is blind and has no intentionality. It is a cause of much suffering but it is not intentional. Note that this should not be seen as reason to sympathize with it either. "Poor poor demiurge, you do not know what you do!" should not elicit feelings of sympathy for it.

>Tell me, if you are the supreme righteous will of yourself, why have you not beaten demiurge?


What the fuck are you even asking me here and how is that relevant to the original perfection of my divine self? Also, aren't you even familiar with the parable of the "fall of man", which itself states that man was perfect originally and then basically ate the fruits of false knowledge and became defiled?

No.16591>>16593
>>16588
>You are perfect, yet you are filled with defilements.

Problem, mortal? The universe is full or paradoxs like this.

http://www.kybalion.org/kybalion.php?chapter=VI

>Unlearning is not the way, you must keep learning to find the truth. Having only one perspective or only one building block will cause your ideals to crumble.


The truth is not found, it is within, and it is always there. Only the removal of the veil (symbolized in alchemy btw by a wizard wearing a veil shrouding his eyes as well as in other ways) brings out the true knowledge which is eternal and always there.

Buddhism also affirms this to the be the case.

Stop with your retard fixation where you assume I have "one perspective" and act as if I was indoctrinated from birth in this viewpoint I am expressing right now, as if I haven't been through many paradigm shifts, and run the whole gamut of philosophies from materialism to idealism.

Just because I am presently, in this conversation, at this time expressing one viewpoint doesn't mean I am not a constant practitioner of thought experiments and wouldn't argue the other way if the consensus was different or I felt a need to interject a new perspective for examination. Muh devil's advocate.

This is an irrelevant fixation of yours that really has no bearing on anything.

>Here's a pic as words alone cannot.


Cannot what?

>See how the starting blocks are muddied and dark, this shows ignorance. On top of those, are a bit brighter blocks that have colours that mix with the ones below. This shows illumination, so to speak. If one of your beliefs in the above, perfect ideals is removed, to fill in you get an abomination of the others mixed in, because that is all you have. Unlike the below, a being that is perfected, knowing why, instead of only just the truth.


What an autistic example lol.

Why don't you read Manly P. Hall "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" and this time realize the significance of the symbolism and what was taught in the mystery schools?

No.16592>>16596>>16597>>16599
>>16590
>No I insult you not mock you. Please self-terminate right now.

You insult me in a fashion to make my ideas seem foolish and impossible, thus mocking me.

>If you don't even believe in it then stop sucking up to it and spreading misinformation that it's supposedly a teacher and a learning program when it's not, it has the very opposite effect, and all true learning, power, knowledge, growth, etc. comes from source not the demiurge.


How can I suck up to something that I don't believe is real? This is cognitive dissonance, which you show a good bit.

>This is NOT A TEST. It is a TRAP. There is NO JUDGE BUT YOURSELF. Look at the NDE literature yourself to affirm that last point. Maya / demiurge / physicality is an illusion held in place by defiled mind.


I will believe what I will from my experiences and you shall do the same.

>Oh lawd you probably don't even know I've been the first to state on this board that "within every religion are elements of the truth buried in it, alongside lots of disinformation". This does not mean I should respect Christianity at all. It is a perversion of truth. Fuck your Christnigger religion.


No, for I have not read every single post. Only those that seem interesting and pose value to that I don't already have.

We hold similar views, but I am neither a christian nor do I indulge in organised religion.

>See also: http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/15162911/#15166629


I like that, the way you've written is beautiful.

>I could say to you faggot that you are "unwilling to hold any viewpoint other than your own" but I'm not so fucking retarded as to make an assumption like that about you as you would do of me without knowing my past and how many times I've changed my personal philosophy as new understandings came to light.


I guess I was a bit hasty and jumped the gun without thinking about that, you are correct.

>No it's easier to find something new than it is to hold onto something. Change is a constant.


To hold something you must become aware of it and its properties. You must become accustomed to it and secure in knowing that this is what it is and "I will hold it."

>Also you fucking contradict yourself by saying "you are confused and not sure of what to think" then contradicting that with by accusing me of being so sure in my belief as to not change it ever.


Words are dreadful, they do not express correctly or fully anything. There is no contradiction here, I claimed that you are confused, not sure of what to think is true, so you cling to an ideal as to remove work from freeing one from confusion. I was wrong.

>Prove my worth to what? If you are implying a something outside of myself again which I supposedly have to submit myself to, then stop that.


Yet you are submitting to the demiurge. If you weren't, you would be free and again as one.

>Holy fuck when after you ever going to mature beyond "punishment, reward, proving, testing, judging, etc." it's like you're still in school or a young child. That's your mentality. The demiurge does not punish as it is blind and has no intentionality. It is a cause of much suffering but it is not intentional. Note that this should not be seen as reason to sympathize with it either. "Poor poor demiurge, you do not know what you do!" should not elicit feelings of sympathy for it.


I am a fair and just man, I bestow mercy and sympathy to the deserving, without bias. If a wild animal attacks me, I will try to subdue it. If impossible, I will kill it, for that is the cycle of life and death and I am allowed to kill this animal. If the demiurge does not know what it does, why should I be angry towards it? It's similar to being angry at an autistic child because he throws toys around and breaks things, instead of using ones resources for something useless, one should prevent the issue the most just and easiest way possible. I have realized that suffering and pain makes one strong, after time that is. I have been defiled (in the non-sexual term) emotionally and physically by this fate, but I have grown from it. One could argue it is a sort of Stockholm syndrome, but I hold no grudge, as it is but a parent's love (let's not argue on this last statement).

>What the fuck are you even asking me here and how is that relevant to the original perfection of my divine self? Also, aren't you even familiar with the parable of the "fall of man", which itself states that man was perfect originally and then basically ate the fruits of false knowledge and became defiled?


Yet you show me again, the inconsistencies in your perception of reality.

> but don't you see that we were thrown out of that realm? We were imperfect and not fit for such


We were thrown out of heaven for being imperfect, we must now attain perfection to be let back in.


Please, do not dwindle on small points. I ask only dignity and the courtesy of a fair and just discussion.

No.16593
>>16591
>paradoxs

Are you going to give me examples? They are only paradoxes, for human language is not perfect.

>Stop with your retard fixation where you assume I have "one perspective" and act as if I was indoctrinated from birth in this viewpoint I am expressing right now, as if I haven't been through many paradigm shifts, and run the whole gamut of philosophies from materialism to idealism.

>Just because I am presently, in this conversation, at this time expressing one viewpoint doesn't mean I am not a constant practitioner of thought experiments and wouldn't argue the other way if the consensus was different or I felt a need to interject a new perspective for examination. Muh devil's advocate.
>This is an irrelevant fixation of yours that really has no bearing on anything.

That wasn't the intention, it would've been understanded if you had read the post and picture correctly. You say that the truth is within, what matters is more is the journey to truth, not just truth. If you hold the truth, you may be perfect (so to speak), but you are then naive and unwise. Experiences are the way to wisdom and to truth. This is a psychological tick on your part, you are insecure that this is how people perceive you and you are showing signs of this.

>Cannot what?

Cannot tell with such efficiency alone, pardon me.

No.16596
>>16592
>You insult me in a fashion to make my ideas seem foolish and impossible, thus mocking me.

lol ok it's not like I care to not offend you.

>How can I suck up to something that I don't believe is real? This is cognitive dissonance, which you show a good bit.


How about you stop discussing the qualities of a thing you supposedly do not believe is real then? "This is cognitive dissonance, which you show a good bit."

>I will believe what I will from my experiences and you shall do the same.


What about your experiences suggest it's a test and why do you even want to be tested and put through all this horseshit of material existence?

Materiality represents limitation, suffering, fragmentation, competition, etc. and is a perversion of spirit and completely opposite in nature to spirit.

>To hold something you must become aware of it and its properties. You must become accustomed to it and secure in knowing that this is what it is and "I will hold it."


Good luck holding onto anything in the ephemeral realm of ever changing forms.

The basic root of happiness lies in our minds; outer circumstances are nothing more than adverse or favourable. – Matthieu Ricard

The mind in its natural state can be compared to the sky, covered by layers of cloud which hide its true nature. – Kalu Rinpoche

Knowledge does not mean mastering a great quantity of different information, but understanding the nature of mind. This knowledge can penetrate each one of our thoughts and illuminate each one of our perceptions. – Matthieu Ricard

Life is expressed in a perpetual sequence of changes. The birth of the child is the death of the baby, just as the birth of the adolescent is the death of the child. – Arnaud Desjardins

Modern civilization is largely devoted to the pursuit of the cult of delusion. There is no general information about the nature of mind. It is hardly ever written about by writers or intellectuals; modern philosophers do not speak of it directly; the majority of scientists deny it could possibly be there at all. It plays no part in popular culture: no one sings about it, no one talks about it in plays, and it’s not on TV. We are actually educated into believing that nothing is real beyond what we can perceive with our ordinary senses. – Sogyal Rinpoche

Underneath our ordinary lives, underneath all the talking we do, all the moving we do, all the thoughts in our minds, there’s a fundamental groundlessness. It’s there bubbling along all the time. We experience it as restlessness and edginess. We experience it as fear. It motivates passion, aggression, ignorance, jealousy, and pride, but we never get down to the essence of it. – Pema Chodron

Children, old people, vagabonds laugh easily and heartily: they have nothing to lose and hope for little. In renunciation lies a delicious taste of simplicity and deep peace. – Matthieu Ricard

By breaking down our sense of self-importance, all we lose is a parasite that has long infected our minds. What we gain in return is freedom, openness of mind, spontaneity, simplicity, altruism: all qualities inherent in happiness. – Matthieu Ricard

Our lives are lived in intense and anxious struggle, in a swirl of speed and aggression, in competing, grasping, possessing and achieving, forever burdening ourselves with extraneous activities and preoccupations. – Sogyal Rinpoche

Western laziness consists of cramming our lives with compulsive activity, so that there is no time at all to confront the real issues. – Sogyal Rinpoche

Simplifying our lives does not mean sinking into idleness, but on the contrary, getting rid of the most subtle aspect of laziness: the one which makes us take on thousands of less important activities. – Matthieu Ricard

Life is movement. The more life there is, the more flexibility there is. The more fluid you are, the more you are alive. – Arnaud Desjardins

I meant to collect quotes on impermanence but… lol whatever I'm posting these.

No.16597
File: 1409869254831.png (92.58 KB, 400x600, Chaos 024.png)
>>16592
>Yet you are submitting to the demiurge. If you weren't, you would be free and again as one.

I already am aware of fundamental unity, my goal isn't oneness, I am already one. My goal is to break these limitations imposed on me, to strip away the veil, and to experience reality lucidly (as in the nature of a dream).

…all that we magicians do is mostly all about self-control. We break habits, form them, resist impulses, cultivate opposite qualities to balance, rush when we are too slow, slow down we are rushing, learn to not be automatic and behave in accord with the central computer / demiurge (Read The Stellar Man and also the works of Franz Bardon especially The Universal Master Key).

It's all about overcoming limitations, asserting the will, developing awareness, increasing agency (the ability to act rather than be passively imposed upon).

I'm not submitting to the demiurge, I am working chaos within in it, fighting it in every way it tries to keep me asleep and programmed.

No.16599
File: 1409870972111.jpg (1.4 MB, 1629x2317, faustgoethe.jpg)
>>16592
Self-mastery is won through hard struggle it is not taught, there can be no teacher of self-mastery but yourself. Others can make suggestions but it is your fight to win. So stop thinking it's a test; that you're being challenged, judged, etc. – you are only struggling with yourself. Victory over yourself is the most permanent victory.

>I am a fair and just man, I bestow mercy and sympathy to the deserving, without bias.


Oh please. The most biased men are the ones that can't recognize bias within themselves. I am biased.

>If a wild animal attacks me, I will try to subdue it. If impossible, I will kill it, for that is the cycle of life and death and I am allowed to kill this animal. If the demiurge does not know what it does, why should I be angry towards it?


What how is this even relevant?

You don't have to be angry towards it, you can be angry with yourself, angry with your present situation and any complacency you may have, or angry for the sake of being angry. The anger doesn't explicitly have to be directed towards the demiurge. All the demiurge amounts to is a collective reality, formed out of patterns of subconscious thought, which we have been hypnotically entranced into. For what it is, you may condemn it all the same if you so like, what you can't do is suppose that it has intentionality or self-awareness. It's just an artificial program that's been corrupted.

"Demiurge

An artificial intelligence comprised of etheric and astral energy that underlies our physical universe. It was projected by the Logos as a thought form programmed with the task of generating and perpetuating physicality. It’s job is to take astral archetypes thought up by the Logos and weave them into physical form. The Demiurge has been called by philosophers the World Soul, for it is the soul of physicality itself. It is what perpetuates the forward momentum of time.

In its corrupted state, the archetypes it weaves into physical manifestation are not those of the Logos, but those of consciousness that has been ensnared by the trappings of physical existence – competition, survival, hatred, suffering, pain, and so on. Thus the Corrupted Demiurge molds and shapes the universe to perpetuate more of same. It is the central brain of the Matrix Control System."

http://montalk.net/about/212/glossary#demiurge

>It's similar to being angry at an autistic child because he throws toys around and breaks things, instead of using ones resources for something useless, one should prevent the issue the most just and easiest way possible.


The solution to that problem would be a bathtub drowning.

>I have realized that suffering and pain makes one strong, after time that is.


No it does not. It beats down the vast majority of people and destroys them. Strength does not require suffering and pain to be cultivated, it is only tested and affirmed to be present through crisis. Strength is at its core nurtured and more aligned with love and kindness. A person who is given fertile grounds for development, who receives support and encouragement, and is nurtured will have profound strength and be able to deal with problems without suffering them and having to be in pain. A fully illuminated mind suffers no more and pain has no hold over him.

>I have been defiled (in the non-sexual term) emotionally and physically by this fate, but I have grown from it. One could argue it is a sort of Stockholm syndrome, but I hold no grudge, as it is but a parent's love (let's not argue on this last statement).


No you haven't grown from it, you've recovered from it, but this is like cutting off a branch on some plant and that plant having to regrow that branch… instead of adding new branches. You've suffered setbacks and got over them and demonstrated resilience.

Had you not been defiled emotionally and physically, no re"growth" would have been necessary in those areas and you could have gone on to confronting higher problems, instead of having to deal with all that bullshit.

>Yet you show me again, the inconsistencies in your perception of reality.


What inconsistency? Don't say there's an inconsistency and yet fail to point out the exact inconsistency.

>but don't you see that we were thrown out of that realm? We were imperfect and not fit for such

>We were thrown out of heaven for being imperfect, we must now attain perfection to be let back in.

No we were not. We not thrown out and we are not imperfect and there is nobody guarding the gates deciding if we get let back in or not. Heaven is within and has not left us, it's obscured. Muh veils.

>Please, do not dwindle on small points. I ask only dignity and the courtesy of a fair and just discussion.


If we were to be truly wise at present we wouldn't even be dwelling on the naughtiness of the demiurge and would just be focusing on our liberation and the means of it right now. This whole dialogue is just an exercise in futility, another meditation. It is for keks and shouldn't be taken so seriously.



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