/fringe/ - Fringe

>>97882

What do you know about Fecalmancy? I ask this as a serious practitioner of the art. I am trying to find others along the path.

>>97883

It is like drinking your piss in the desert only because you're dehydrating?

You got not much to ration with…so you work with shit?

I prefer working with air. You were born breathing. People's lives are changed by speech. Plenty of air at Earth of Sol. Many opportunities to force life.

>>97882

Green card or GTFO

>>97884

I do understand, "a" benefit of, "fecalmancy". You have stored material to work with as long as you eat, but then again…your lungs (probably) have oxygen. I think you should consider learning speech so-word man skill. A pure pleiadian opportunity of forcing life.

>>97885

lol

I've argued this front of military, and breakaway extraorbital and interplanetary organizations: my work is important enough that we should consider what the Americans of United States prefer even if they have not been specifically consulted about me among the other, "aliens" (those without proof of being a natural citizen of United States of America). I am human though.

I think some of the United States Armed Forces understand that I am technically not a citizen by birth…but that by my work I have been understood as a tried and true American.

I have a birth certificate that is mine…but it belonged to an other human who disappeared. I took the place of that human. I took the name of that human. This is why I don't look like the guy and gal whose names are on, "my" birth certificate.

I am probably staying or working as employed by some United States of America corporation or an other…especially as experiencing government work…either employed or recognized as an agent.

I am not GTFO'ing except during temporary leavings to plan companying the billions of surface humans of Earth to force these humans experience access to eternal life technologies.

>>97888

Comrade! I respect you. I've known a human or two who learned, or tried to learn, benefit of some use of shit. They are, or were, smart people.

I assume you use your knowledge to force eternal life of all humans.

What about Earth, Marse, Venus, Titan, and Ganymede…and Pluto? I've been to these places, and I am interested to read anything you will type about these places.

Are you that one guy who keeps namefag larping on /x/?

>>97993

I'm not larping. I've typed to /x/ at 4chan many times. A few times I saw other people used my name.

Hey I'd like to ask you why you shouldn't be banned right now under rule 5 and rule 3?

>3. No creating new threads purely to no-effort shitpost (you will be forgiven if it's a major GET)

>5. No identifying posts / namefag drama

>>98073

"Gonzalez" is an alias. I haven't posted my United States of America legal name or my preferred name.

I will really be identified as, "Gonzalez" who Corey Goode knows. I have posted answers which are as honest as I can. I have not posted texts without thinking what I was posting.

Here is my issue with Corey, maybe you can explain this.

His info matches with a lot of my private sources. I don't think he is full of shit (at least not completely).

If he is in physical contact…..why doesn't he just snap a goddamn picture or take a video?

There is no argument for him not to do so. The cabal will just say it's fake anyway, as will other skeptics.

I happen to know at least a portion of what he says checks out but why, oh why is it that no one claiming physical contact can whip put their phone and take one goddamn picture?

Regardless of how true the info, it diminishes the sources credibility which is not desirablr

>>98143

Its a whirlwind. Real fast…real far. People tend to take things from people…and they are not around to give them back. People also tend to not give things back. Corey tries to not harm people. He doesn't want to harm people. He may be not able to get some of the items he has brought with him because he doesn't want to struggle to get them. He may not be bringing any items because he believes he will not be able to securely bring them back.

Among the sphere being alliance, of whom Corey is involved, not harming humans is really important. Losing your personal belongings just to not harm anyone is preferred rather than harming to keep items.

I know I don't bring things with me because I don't want to waste my time talking about things which I won't even use should I be successfully forcing access to eternal life technologies. I also prefer not fighting over equipment. Whatever people put to me, which I am comfortable using, is what I have. I am sometimes naked because I am so completely stolen from because I will not harm to keep. Having equipment makes me predictable…and I prefer my only predictability is what I will say. I also don't like things I have being used to harm me. I am also educated as a philosopher of language…I speak. This means I don't need to bring anything with me to be effective…so I don't bring anything with me.

>>98148

Nigga you gotta eat unless you sayin you be livin off dat prana kno wut I sayin ayo

An if u can't stop from getting stoled from without hurtin niggas das be cuz I a bullshit occultist amirite dawg

>>98148

In what way does bringing belongings potentially cause harm?

>>98155

He likes being naked don't be a hard nigga

>>98155

If you have over a certain amount, I think it is 50lbs, you will have to pay extra to fly.

>>98158

Nigga you's best be jighling

I'm a beanier who thinks he is a pleiadian

>>97889

>I am human though.

has to continually emphasize human

>>98063

>I'm not larping.

k

>>98189

Nygguh he be an alien and sheit fo realz

Why should we care who you are

>>99496

Fool! I am 6 million years old puny mortal! I know ALL, WORSHIP ME GRINGO!

>>99506

shucks, everytime I made a "I know everything AMA anything" no one likes it

Anyways, ya don't know shit. If you do, say something smart like what is the meaning of life or what exactly is god or why is there existence

>>99514

What would satisfy me is you live eternally. The reason is this: I want to dodge, prevent, and survive the next big bang explosions of the universe. Astronomers believe an explosion the size of millions of millions of stars of millions of galaxies happened fourteen billion years earlier than now. I think one man trying to gather data intelligence information could not travel to enough places to be sure of where the next big bang explosions are exploding from. I need as many humans as possible at as many matters gravitied of the stars of the galaxies to be sure I will dodge, prevent, and survive the next big bang explosions.

>>99520

You are only proving how you know so very little. you are eternal and it's only illusions that make you think otherwise

what is with your obsession of the physical universe?

>>99514

>what exactly is god

Dude you just outed yourself as an ignorant mundane playing teh wizord.

Why don't you try to show everyone how much you know and do some practice on your own instead?

>>99530

Actually trying to do magic is LARP

Stop using that flag when you don't comprehend WWA

>>99530

obviously I know what god is. I'm asking him to say something as smart as he claims to be. all is one

>>99531

but anon, everything we do is magic even if we don't know it

>>99532

I don't claim to be smart. I claim to be forced by an ancient human program to live eternal life. I claim technologies are forcing positioning of humans, creatures, and things which is to ensure I live eternally.

God is a human. Gods are humans. We are a, "meta" creature which can compete with any other creature in the universe.

>>99524

My obsession of the physical universe is because the physical universe is obvious to me by my senses. I see because of light at my eyes. I hear because of air at my ears.

I am just enjoying a great program of forcing my eternal life. So I enjoy the physical universe sooner or later, and I am currently enjoying the physical universe now.

>>99561

>I claim to be forced by an ancient human program to live eternal life. I claim technologies are forcing positioning of humans, creatures, and things which is to ensure I live eternally.

aaaand why should anyone care

you were concerned about big bangs and shit

the eternal part of you transcends physicality

>>99564

Eternal life? ETERNAL LIFE?

You should care about eternal life. You are the very kind of creature which could access eternal life technologies.

I am concerned about big bangs because I don't want to die by any of them.

I believe only the physical me is any me.

>>99532

Here is some spiel I typed to an other anonymous board:

Despair Code:

Humans accessed eternal life technology thousands of years earlier than now.

Humans are getting instant regrowth of their missing body parts. They are getting their old brains placed into the heads of young cloned bodies. Some of the clone bodies are only aged seven years; old humans looking like children.

Ancient humans, breakaway civilizations of humans are, "mind controlling" millions of humans by a muscle flexing technology. The machines are as close as at you. The machines are as far as miles. The mind control happens by electricity caused at your muscles or your brain.

Aliens (science freak experiments) are pets, slaves, workers, acquaintances, friends, "family", or comrades of the most ancient humans and breakaway civilization humans…and like how the richest surface humans of United States of America pamper their pet dogs with food which is better quality than most humans at surface of Earth eat…some aliens have better quality technology than United States Armed Forces. Many of the humans, among the groups of humans who are dominating all the aliens, use the aliens as, "portable storage containers" which are, "smart", "interesting", "interactive" and, "self securing".

Humans can travel from Earth to Marse during only a few hours time. Humans are living at the moons of every planet gravitied of Sol. They have robots to make all their food, and their governments are comprised of all citizens representing at the legislature, courts, and harming operations (executive work; non-words work).

>>99566

>I believe only the physical me is any me.

oh mundanes are so funny. humans are more than just physical beings

>They are getting their old brains placed into the heads of young cloned bodies. Some of the clone bodies are only aged seven years; old humans looking like children.

this is most likely mistranslation of high level wizardry phenomena

long ago humans had more access to their right brain, weren't left brain dominant like we mostly are today. this allowed living in a reality less tethered to physicality allowing things like swapping bodies and such.

if you really into alien stuff Montalk goes into great detail, there's even some science about mind control. but the more relevant stuff is the quantum etheric manipulation

but here, since you are passionately going about all the wrong kinds of crazy, I might as well entertain you

http://montalk.net/conspiracy/55/how-to-block-microwave-mind-programming-signals

>>99566

>>99567

Physical you is still physical when it's made out of whoo whoo particles and waves as well as when it's made of fleshy stuff.

And where the fuck are all these claims coming from? People will talk with authority on anything and everything.

>>99623

If people are not talking about these claims then it is because there are police, sheriff, magistrates, and psychologists who can detain, jail, and drug you depending of whether or not they believe you are a danger to yourself or others. Believing you are getting access to eternal life technologies is considered delusional. Claiming you saw others accessing eternal life technologies is considered delusional.

>>99626

Makes me wonder why there isn't a… wait do you guys know of any guilds or organizations and whatnot that teach all this shit, along with a bunch of other shit? Do they all have beards? I've only got the stache/goatee goin' but I can work on growing a beard and buy a robe somewhere. I need to find a Wizard's Guild.

>>99623

Not neccessarily. There is a limit to physicality and this limit is reached in Quantum Mechanics. Have you considered the wave function collapse?

Regardless, there are higher dimensions implied in theoretical physics like string theory. Are these "physical"

Not to mention, in astronomy the observable universe is only 5% of the movement in the universe, 95% is dark matter and dark energy which is something completely undetectable to humans. Is this "physical"?

And which claim are you skeptical of? One at a time we can explore them

>>99626

Although that may be true it's still a meaningless statement. Anyone who thinks it's true is due to their own previous experiences and past knowledge… Otherwise it's a baseless claim. And an irrelevant one at that. Kind of makes you look paranoid. One should be an optimistic cynic at worst (at best?)

>>99630

Careful of charlatans

>>99644

>it happening in science doesn't seem too far off from scientists getting excited when they enter a field of study that no one can really prove or deny because "it could be anything" based on the evidence they have.

What does this even mean. When the actual math says "it could be anything" what are you supposed to do?

> the system could confirm itself through observation yet not be the ACTUAL TRUE workings of reality

then what is the difference? how do you define "ACTUAL TRUE" workings of reality? It goes back the philosophical question, how do you even define reality?

>>99644

And if you can't trust your observations then there isn't any consistency and patterns since that comes from observations. Might as well completely throw out all science and knowledge ever and just act like braindead monkeys

>>99651

Okay…. When you do the double slit experiment, why do you get an interference pattern instead of just two lines like you would with normal matter? Is the entire experiment a hallucination? Is physical reality a hallucination? You are being completely illogical

>>99653

It's not illogical to ask how the measuring instruments interact with the light.

Devil's in the details.

>>99654

What measuring instruments what are you talking about? Anyone can do the double slit experiment with a light source and a opaque barrier with two slits. Then instead of two lines behind the barrier you get an interference pattern. Stop talking about shit that you have no idea about

The wave nature of light and elementary particles is a clear phenomena that anyone can verify for themselves, but it is literally unexplained in science with only extrapolation of the mysterious mechanics at play leading to quantum mechanics and the lack of consensus in interpretation leading to no actual theory, only statistical analysis. no development for 50 years only a dead end

>>99655

>>99657

The double slit experiment is when light is in waveform when uninterfered with by measuring instruments, yet acts as kinetic particles when measured before going through the double slits, creating two discrete bands of light.

In other words you can't even explain the experiment properly because you don't even grasp the fundamental contradiction that was perceived by the scientists.

And I asked, assuming you had basic comprehension skills, why no one would think that the interference of the measuring devices would naturally result in a change of behavior in the light and offer different explanations for it rather than "hurr it's a paradox, does not compute". Yes waves and particles are involved, yet there isn't an iota of intelligence in humanity since they never once consider that, say, perhaps measuring electrons or photons by hitting them with whatever particle knocks the particle out of the accompanying wave and they each go a different path, the unobservable wave (with our eyes that is) going wherever the fuck, and the electron or photon heading towards the wall without anything to change its straight-and-direct path. Thus double band vs "interference" pattern.

Humanity is doomed if you and the entire scientific body is any representation.

>>99658

>yet acts as kinetic particles when measured before going through the double slits, creating two discrete bands of light.

Even if we ignore this, the wave pattern is still completely unexplained.

What is there to explain? You shoot light at two slits and get an interference pattern. No one can explain what happens, that's the whole point of the experiment…

>why no one would think that the interference of the measuring devices would naturally result in a change of behavior in the light

this is literally called the measurement problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem

>perhaps measuring electrons or photons by hitting them with whatever particle knocks the particle out of the accompanying wave and they each go a different path, the unobservable wave (with our eyes that is) going wherever the fuck, and the electron or photon heading towards the wall without anything to change its straight-and-direct path. Thus double band vs "interference" pattern.

Are you retarded? They did the same thing shooting a single particle at a time and a wave pattern is still made. The explanation you gave is what they tell you in grade 12 since it's easier to explain than quantum mechanics

if you actually did understand quantum mechanics, all of it comes down to the wave function collapse as I mentioned. But of course, you keep proving yourself to be completely ignorant

The source of this video is pretty pseudoscience but this video is like a perfect response to all the nonsense you said

well the video implies some nonsense about the measurement problem but the wave function collapse of the superposition is the crux of the problem

this video signifies the lack of consensus of what the theory could be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics

>>99659

A single particle unmeasured would still have a carrier wave, you haven't directly addressed my statement only provided an irrelevant fact.

What there is to explain, shooting a particle of fucking LIGHT which is understood to have wave patterns with or without any fucking double slit or one slit or any slit experiment is unthinkable.

Again, why would scientists or you for that matter expect light to change its behavior sending a little or a lot of it?

Consider this: The particle(s) likely have a magnetic field that interferes with each other particle until they're all homogenized/polarized in the same direction by a measuring device, thus resulting in a double band of light rather than interference pattern. That's a fucking Occam's Razor theory that cuts through the bullshit mystique of the entire situation.

Let me make this clear: You are the fucking idiot, and every dogmatic delusional fantasy ego scientist there is.

>>99723

>carrier wave

>which is understood to have wave patterns

what is that and how do you explain that in a physical sense. If you can do this you get a nobel prize

>Again, why would scientists or you for that matter expect light to change its behavior sending a little or a lot of it?

What I am saying has nothing to do with changing behaviors. It's a simple question for why is there a wave pattern behind the two slits instead of two lines?

What is the wave nature of light? If it's not a particle, then what is it a wave of? How can matter exist in a wave? It exists in a super position and you have to understand what a super position is before you can discuss any of this

Occam's Razor means choosing the simplest explanation yet your only convoluting it.

So if you are attempting to explain the particle you at least accept that the particle is doing something that's not normal? I never asked you to explain it, your the one saying that all scientists are wrong and then you continue to use different science to create an alternative to quantum mechanics. Are you mentally deranged? So now you are just picking and choosing what part of science is legitimate? Your basically shitposting

Don't project your idiocy on me. Accept your ignorance or shut the fuck up you arrogant sperg.

>>99724

The cock of science is deep in your ass friend.

When you want to stop being so arrogant that anyone with alternative views of the organization of forces in reality, even offering a decent conjecture, we can talk. Until then I'll wait till you aren't the bumtickled church of science poster boy.

>>99758

**so arrogant that you attack anyone

>>99758

>>99759

You can't pick and choose saying quantum mechanics isn't valid but then use theory of electrognetism to explain phenomena. There is no reasoning with you. You're a crackpot

>>99760

Why would everything the scientific community has to say about reality be true. It's called criticism.

Quantum mechanics is a clear break from the orthodoxy of science. So if you suggest that "it all follows the same rules thus it's either all true or false" is wrong.

There are several branches of science and they all follow different theories. There is no Unifying Theory of Science.

You going to choke on more priest of science dick?

>>99774

Then fucking say which branches you agree with and which you don't. But of course you can't do that because you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fact that you pathetically half ass some new explanation literally every single time you response shows you literally are just learning shit and responding as you go along. If you could say what you beleived in then I woudln't be able to say that but when you're saying shit that science has already explored and debunked and explained you only end up making a fool of yourself. You even admitted it yourself

>I'm familiar with all the theories but I'm keeping it on ice until I dive into the subjects actually instead of relying on second-hand knowledge.

If you stopped there then it would have been fine, but then you have the audacity to say

>it happening in science doesn't seem too far off from scientists getting excited when they enter a field of study that no one can really prove or deny because "it could be anything" based on the evidence they have.

> the system could confirm itself through observation yet not be the ACTUAL TRUE workings of reality

How much of a fucking retard can you get?

>>99774

By the way, no you're completely wrong yet again. literally all of physics comes under relativity and quantum mechanics. These two theories of science literally IS the orthodoxy of physics. If these two could be combined then yes you would have a unifying theory of science aka ToE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything

There is literally nothing else. The "clear break" was discovering the 'new science' leading to the dropping of the 'old science' that is Newtonian science (which has since been disproven, only good for a simple mathematical description of what happens at the macroscopic human scale. It falls apart at the smallest (quantum) and largest (relative) scale)

And the theory of electromagnetism that you tried using to provide an alternative for quantum mechanics, IS from quantum mechanics. Surprise surprise! If you deny QM then what is the explanation for particles having magnetic fields? How do you explain vector fields without relativity?

If you want to keep learning from arguing with me then it's you who are choking on my dick. Keep swallowing that cum of knowledge bitch

>>99777

All you've said I know.

In response to your first greentext: I am familiar with everything we're talking about but I'm not literally a multi-PhD holder, but have dived into as much of this as you have. My ambitions and standards are higher than yours.

Second greentext: All observation is understood through the lens of theory/perspective. That we can predict results does not mean it's the actual true workings of reality when those predictions only go so far and in very specific circumstances; in other words, there is understood to be a connection and we find the most likely replication of this connection by another circumstance and check to see if that other specific circumstance indeed meets our expectations. These are the equivalent to connecting 2 0D points (.) by a 1D line in the multidimensional realm of understanding.

Particles are composed of sub-atomic particles that move in a "Flower of Life" pattern like a dance, creating the dynamic tensions/attraction necessary in order to pull the released vector (some particle and wave) back in on itself into a toroidal flow (field).

>>99784

On top of this, most of my statements are "in general", as I refer to more than just Physics.

>>99784

>but have dived into as much of this as you have. My ambitions and standards are higher than yours.

fuck off. I asked you multiple times what you think of the wave function collapse. I understand QM inside out and can talk about it forever. Relativity is not my cup of tea however but godammit don't talk like you know shit to someone who actually does. I assure you, I understand and can explain to great lengths all the mysterious phenomena of QM to and the arrogance in the field of science.

If you want to talk about science then talk about science. Don't mix science and philosophy and spirituality in the same sentence. Before attempting to mix them first establish a logical framework IE a philosophy. From there you can correlate science and spirituality using this philosophy. Your philosophy is absolute shit though

>That we can predict results does not mean it's the actual true workings of reality when those predictions only go so far and in very specific circumstances;

What the hell are "true workings of reality" when there is more than one reality. This is a semantic issue that must be pursued and resolved to establish a philosophy before any other discussion can continue

>in other words, there is understood to be a connection and we find the most likely replication of this connection by another circumstance and check to see if that other specific circumstance indeed meets our expectations.

This might as well be gibberish. Learn to better articulate your thoughts, I'm not gonna do the critical thinking for you. As I have said many times, science is based on repeating an experiment to prove that it is true in ALL circumstances. If you think this is wrong, give an example of any theory in physics that changes based on it's circumstances. INB4 more shitty articulation of failure in comprehension. You won't be able to because they are tried and tested universal rules of physical reality. And there's nothing even wrong with them, it's just that 'science' has reached a deadend due to arrogance.

You are entitled to your opinions, but if you want to refer to your opinions in a serious discussion then expect to be invalidated and ridiculed until you can provide logic or a valid counterargument to the invalidation. It is simple logic. Of course you haven't even indicated yet if you think logic is objective or not. If not, then talking to you is a complete waste of time since logic is objective by definition.

here is a tl;dr version

>the actual true workings of reality

physics does not claim to explain this. PHYSICS only claims to explain the PHYSICal reality. Notions of whether there is more than this reality or not, and general discourse on "actual true workings of reality" is called METAPHYSICS which is entirely philosophy and has nothing to do with modern physics (except until one acknowledges the implications of the fundamental nature of (physical) reality revealed by QM and relativity, a very new development in philosophy)

>>99789

>>99789

>>99793

Their arrogance has seemed to rub off on you. Your word definitions are different from my own, so when you think you're meeting me point by point you're not even registering what I'm actually trying to say.

I'm not going to fight the science war with you as I'm trying to maintain my own energy and awareness cultivation without being pulled into Orion or whatever "energy signature" you're battling with.

If you would like methods to free your intuition from the binds of scientific definition/constraints let me know. Obviously reversable.

It's my thinking that you have a power intrusion by the spirit of science, and that you can't easily pull the glasses from your face.

I will agree that science is incredibly insightful.

I will also say that the universe hides her secrets well, and does not often wish for them to be revealed, no matter the will that plumbs it.

It is the spirit of science, or at least use to be, to never be certain about anything so as to "carrot and stick" lead the donkey of learning ever onward. I suggest becoming less linear, more non-linear "infinite carrot works".

I have enough self-respect not to debase myself and conform to your expectations of what objective truth must present itself as. I suggest you treat others with more respect and consider their words with a bit more benefit of the doubt and intuition, rather than extreme compartmentalization and confrontation.

>>97882

why r u a beaner

>>99834

Fuck off your the only one 'battling with energy signatures

I'm completely satisfied in my understanding of Science and find it completely compatible with all other concepts, spiritual fringe or whatever.

There are no binds on me or any sort of limitation. I can, and am willing to explain all of science and spirituality, and if anyone accuses me of being incorrect then I will engage in logic explaining whatever is asked of me and acknowledging any invalidation or valid counterarguments, which you did not make

Your the one saying that science is incorrect, and then you argue with me when I prove you wrong using actual science. It's you who are limiting yourself

If you don't want to argue then engage in the discussion of science or stop fucking talking to me. I'll be here ready to share my logic with anyone who responds

>>99834

>I will also say that the universe hides her secrets well, and does not often wish for them to be revealed, no matter the will that plumbs it.

Actually the universe is so desperate to share her secrets. I pursued and discovered all that I wanted to know

Chances are you are terrified of the truth. Oh well, when you stop being a spineless pussy let me know

Faggot

>>99844

>muh 'scientific reform

There is no need for reform when everything in physics is correct. There is only the problem of a dead end because of arrogance of materialism. No development in quantum mechanics for over 50 years.

Certainly you can't talk about any development if you continue to arrogantly deny the logic of quantum mechanics. Use logic to invalidate it if you can, I dare you. That would of course, require you to understand what you are attempting to invalidate

BTW

it was you who became rude first

It was you who interjected a conversation between me and OP

It was you who keep attempting to derail the conversation that YOU started instead of admitting that you were wrong

I'll just spam this until you stop being retarded

>If you don't want to argue then engage in the discussion of science or stop fucking talking to me. I'll be here ready to share my logic with anyone who responds

>When you want to talk about something we both don't already know we can discuss something.

You've blatantly proven that you don't understand quantum mechanics. If you do, then tell me what you think causes the wave function collapse?

>>99845

You just fucking blogged about your life story. Fucking kill yourself you godamned attention whore

>>99852

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)#Quantum_mechanics

>When discussing the wave function ψ which describes the state of a system in quantum mechanics, one should be cautious of a common misconception that assumes that the wave function ψ amounts to the same thing as the physical object it describes. This flawed concept must then require existence of an external mechanism, such as the mind of a conscious observer, that lies outside the principles governing the time evolution of the wave function ψ, in order to account for the so-called "collapse of the wave function" after a measurement has been performed. But the wave function ψ is not a physical object like, for example, an atom, which has an observable mass, charge and spin, as well as internal degrees of freedom. Instead, ψ is an abstract mathematical function that contains all the statistical information that an observer can obtain from measurements of a given system. In this case, there is no real mystery that mathematical form of the wave function ψ must change abruptly after a measurement has been performed.

>In the ambit of the so-called hidden-measurements interpretation of quantum mechanics, the observer-effect can be understood as an instrument effect which results from the combination of the following two aspects: (a) an invasiveness of the measurement process, intrinsically incorporated in its experimental protocol (which therefore cannot be eliminated); (b) the presence of a random mechanism (due to fluctuations in the experimental context) through which a specific measurement-interaction is each time actualized, in a non-predictable (non-controllable) way.

Consciousness has nothing to do with it, bucko. Stop trying to shoehorn science into your metaphysics.

>>99852

Besides the latest post, I gave you a reason for the wave function collapse in the specific instance of the double slit experiment already.

>>99658

>>99723

I gave two reasons actually, either possibly true; I haven't checked what the theory is called in either cases in the contemporary discussion of physics/QM.

Your reading comprehension is what's terrible. Again, again, again you fucker I'm not talking exclusively physics/QM. I'm talking about applying the scientific method in new ways to such things as psychic phenomena, psycho-biology, acoustic-biology, acoustic-psychics, mapping out the meditative states, creating instruments that can probe the "astral" or "thought sphere" or whatever we discover to mediate/carry telepathy, etc and etcetera.

I'm talking about giving a greater spiritual/philosophical purpose to science, you puritan fuck. It's not going to degenerate from revitalizing its sense of purpose and greatness.

>>99851

"No development" and "dead end because of arrogance of materialism" but doesn't need reform whatsoever. As if discounting the wave function collapse as instrument interference doesn't already show you just how baseless the uncertainty principle is (a practical matter, not technically or logically correct).

What more do you think QM is based on? Being unable to determine where a specific particle is at any one time. They've already invented methodologies to overcome this fact, thus negating the "uncertainty principle" which isn't a fucking principle at all, just a limitation in measurement.

You are cock.

This is how you waste my time with "facts". You want me to change your opinion on PHYSICS/QM for you (not even science, but a specific sub-branch of science) when we SHOULD be talking about how science NEEDS to change, not how it SHOULDN'T.

>>99861

I never said consciousness had anything to do with it stop putting words in my mouth I swear to god you are all so fucking retarded, I simply asked, what do you think causes the wave function collapse.

And everyone fails to answer

>>99867

You are denying the entire phenomena of superposition and wave function collapse. If you deny the explanation that quantum mechanics provides, then that's when I asked you why is there a wave pattern? The wave pattern is when the wave function does NOT collapse in the double slit experiment

So you went on to talk about magnetic fields, which is so retarded since the theory of electromagnetism is derived from quantum mechanics. If you deny QM, how can you logically use electromagnetism to explain anything? You have to build an entire new science to explain even the simplest things.

Of course you failed to explain anything, yet you continue to arrogantly ramble incoherently.

>I'm not talking exclusively physics/QM

>I'm talking about giving a greater spiritual/philosophical purpose to science,

them fuck off. stop derailing the thread. No one asked for your shit. LIke I said, YOU interrupted a conversation between me and OP, and your incoherent rambling has now filled half the thread.

Make a new thread and jack off to your shitty theories there, stop derailing the discussion in this thread

>They've already invented methodologies to overcome this fact, thus negating the "uncertainty principle" which isn't a fucking principle at all, just a limitation in measurement.

but that's wrong you fucking retard. The uncertainty principle is an inherent quality of the physical universe, and if you understood what the superposition even was then you would figure that out. One cannot measure both the position or momentum of a particle, as measuring one will change the other. This is a limit of physicality as I have already mentioned. If you say this is a limit in measurement, then you need a NONPHYSICAL DEVICE because physical devices cannot measure the smallest phenomena in physical reality. There is nothing smaller than quantum phenomena, and the measuring divide will obviously be made of particles, and these particles will interact with the particles being measured. There is no way around this. It is a limit of physicality

> As if discounting the wave function collapse as instrument interference

I already responded to your retardedness. Science has already accounted for this. Like I said HALF A THREAD AGO

>this is literally called the measurement problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_problem

none of this is relevant until you can explain the wave pattern in the double slit experiment without quantum mechanics. which you have completely failed to do in your different incoherent ramblings

> want me to change your opinion on PHYSICS/QM for you

No I want you to fuck off and stop derailing the thread. LIke I said

>If you don't want to argue then engage in the discussion of science or stop fucking talking to me. I'll be here ready to share my logic with anyone who responds

I refuse to deal with your rambling as so much of it is irrelevant. I'm literally just teaching you shit about all the things you are wrong. NO MORE. The only relevant shit is this

If you deny QM, then explain the wave pattern. If you do not deny it, then what do you think causes the wave function collapse. Because no physicist has been able to answer this, and as far as they are concerned it is a matter of interpretation.

Isn't there anyone who actually understands quantum mechanics? If not, is there anyone who actually wants to learn? I would love to explain it to any earnestly curious people

>>99871

You are the least self aware person I have ever met.

EM is not derived from QM.

The burden of proof is on you. It's just a theory, it's not fact, and it explains nothing, only suggests amorphous forms of possibility that serve as mist to collect into dew upon the whiskers of near-death armchair intellectual elitists with a superiority complex whom belittle all opposition to such hair splitting solipsism. The result being a nihilistic neurosis that rejects the inherent indeterminate nature of perception due to a long history of deterministic thought (physics) being shaken to the core, its death rattle echoing decades into the future after the fact, with only the least happy individuals taking it upon themselves to disprove reality whilst self-identifying as QUANTUM Physicists, physicists rejecting all that is unquantized and unnumerical, accepting no qualitatives, no indeterminates, that all philosophers since the beginning of time have realized to be 1 or 2 parts of 3, the quantitative being the rest. Pure neurosis, obsession, insecurity, fear, panic, disease.

You have my sympathy. Down you go with ye ship, oh brave soldier.

I can logically use EM to explain QM by not making the assumption that QM is true in order to prove its true (circular logic at its best). As well, it's not quantum physics, it's light and atomic/sub-atomic physics. Q.E.D.

Every problem you've mentioned in this thread is derived from the measurement problem. Nothing magical is happening here. The measurement problem has been present since existence began. Everyone deals with it on a daily basis. Your problems are not unique. Physics has been humanized and you are terrified. Q.E.D.

Logic is a human invention and as fallible as the people who use it. Q.E.D.

>>99871

As soon as you violated the meaning of "Atom" you fucked with magic. Now you're all suffering psychosis from dividing the "undivisible". Black magic. Now you suffer being divided where there should be none. Language fails you, all is for naught, nothing has meaning, you cling to your objects of power to save yourselves but it's just enough not to be destroyed. The irony is that if you just let go you'd be fine and return to harmony and well-being, after a period, but nope. Saturn binds you.

Math was bad enough in the beginning, now it's just rotten. This is coming from a dude who loved math.

Kind of cool realizing that scientists are magicians that perform black magic, sacrifice women, and enslave humanity… cool, yeah, that's the word…

>>99876

>>99877

>it's not quantum physics, it's light and atomic/sub-atomic physics

>confirmed for retarded

here's the spam I promised

>If you don't want to argue then engage in the discussion of science or stop fucking talking to me. I'll be here ready to share my logic with anyone who responds

And it seems you are too arrogantly ignorant to understand what engaging in discussion of science means in this context. So I'll spam this too

>If you deny QM, then explain the wave pattern. If you do not deny it, then what do you think causes the wave function collapse. Because no physicist has been able to answer this, and as far as they are concerned it is a matter of interpretation.

>>99873

I want to teach myself quantum physics, where to start?

>>99900

I almost never recommend reading material, as most everything I have known is using logic to connect the bits and paces of info

so uh. wikipedia bro. I can give you a lesson right here. I want to make a website and academy for all this shit since there is nothing even close to an adequate source

much of what I know is entirely from intuition, but at the same time I can provide direct references. the wiki articles on superposition, measurement problem, wave function collapse, etc. and finally when you get the concepts read the wiki article on the varying interpretations of quantum mechanics. unless they've been wiped or purged or shitted on, last time I checked them properly years ago the wiki articles were pretty legit

what is your previous knowledge? I doubt people already know about the double slit experiment, but high school knowledge of chemistry is required. do you know the s p d f orbitals? what about the 'discrete' nature of reality? when you zoom in enough, nothing is moving smoothly, everything is actually "teleporting" like how your monitor works. if you have very low resolution you can see a dot moving as it 'teleports' between pixel to pixel. I am not trying to give any implications from this, hold onto your hats and blown mind until the end of lessons. watch video if you have no idea between continuous and discrete

so if you look at the periodic table, the rows tell you what "energy level" or what "orbit" the outer electrons are in. the column tells you how many electrons. the point is that when an electron goes from one level to another, it practically (perhaps literally, no one knows) teleports. like if an atom absorbs energy an electron will go to a higher energy level, them jump back down to a lower energy level giving of light. this is how you can see shit. light shines on shit and electrons jump up and down shooting back light

From here, I'm not sure where to start for you. ask specific question?

whatever you do, don't touch the nova documentaries. they shit on actual logic and knowledge, and just sensationalize conjecture to something that reminds me of desperate memes and shitposting. michu kaku is a moron and so is neil degrasse tyson (sometimes black science man is cool though). carl sagan is who you want to listen to

oh shit forgot video

of course I can just go into the implications of quantum mechanics and how it relates to spirituality, but there would be no reason for anyone to believe me. and they shouldn't until they truly understand it themselves

>>99919

Afaik the implications of spirituality that people deduce from quantum physics are based of a (deliberate) misunderstanding of the "Observer Effect." Tom Campbell in his book and lectures bases his entire metaphysical system on this deception/misunderstanding. I'm not coming from the perspective of an atheist materialist - I believe in as much mystical bullshit as anyone here. But, my beliefs are backed up by subjective experiences and not "Science."

>>99921

ah fucking typos, im on my phone

>>99921

Well do you understand quantum mechanics? If ya do, then what do you think causes the wave function collapse?

if you don't understand it then why do you argue. if you do understand it, then I would absolutely love and appreciate a discussion on different interpretations of the wave function collapse

>>99920

You don't "learn" science from intuition, but to "understand"what the hell it means and WHY it is the way it is, you definitely need intuition.

you need a holistic approach and understanding. do not compartmentalize the different fields and subcategories of science

why do you believe that mystical bullshit CANNOT be backed up by objectivity and "science"

that sounds like a limiting belief to me. More than science you need philosophy. But all the mystical phenomena that I know, I can explain using objective concepts and logic. I dare you to challenge me

>>99921

>Tom Campbell in his book and lectures bases his entire metaphysical system on this deception/misunderstanding

I don't know who that is but a cursory look didn't even show anyone claiming him to be pseudoscience. He has a masters and is an engineer that has worked for Nasa. Sounds good to me but that's an ad hominem fallacy and I haven't actually read his material

just saying since you brought him up completely randomly

>>99924

The act of measurement causes the wave function to collapse. That is, the inanimate object that is the measuring tool interacting with the photons. It doesn't matter if a conscious human being is involved in this process or not.

'"According to standard quantum mechanics, it is a matter of complete indifference whether the experimenters stay around to watch their experiment, or leave the room and delegate observing to an inanimate apparatus, instead, which amplifies the microscopic events to macroscopic measurements and records them by a time-irreversible process''

(Bell, John (2004). Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics: Collected Papers on Quantum Philosophy. Cambridge University Press. p. 170

I don't think Science is at a point right now where it can reconcile occult phenomena. All this stuff falls outside the realm of objective causality. Yes, you can use logic and intuition to determine the validity occult principles, but that doesn't mean shit to a scientist. The technology just isn't there right now to objectively observe OBEs and other "paranormal" phenomena (it probably has existed in secret since the cold war, but that doesnt mean anything to us commoners). So, it's not that Science can't be used to backup our metaphysics, but that I don't think it has progressed enough right now to where it can.

>>99927

Yes, I know he has an MA, which is why I think he is probably deliberately deceiving people. I brought him up just as an example. He's been talked about on here before and his book is recommended in one infographic. He still explains things fairly well, but the foundation of his entire system is based on bullshit. He uses his credentials as a "scientist" as a marketing tool. Multiple people with physics training claiming he's full of shit in this thread. https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/double-slit-experiment-with-detectors-not-recording.414617/

>>99940

>That is, the inanimate object that is the measuring tool interacting with the photons. It doesn't matter if a conscious human being is involved in this process or not.

Yeah I never denied this. I'm sure your saying this for any lurkers who have the wrong idea. That's great I guess. At least you know somewhat what this is about. About time someone smart enough to understand this came around.

>The act of measurement causes the wave function to collapse.

But here's the thing. When the wave function collapses, whether from act of measurement or interaction with other particles, or what have you…

When I asked what causes the wave function collapse, what I really meant is what causes the superposition go to a singular position.

As you may know, the wave function collapse is a mathematical description for the phenomena of an elementary particle, being in a so called superposition aka 'cloud of potential positions' (ie the s p d f orbitals of electrons in an atom. they are 3d shapes, with probability densities, not simple orbits like planets. that's a high school lie)

However these probability densities are just statistical estimates; when the 'wave function collapses' one can never accurately predict where the particle will end up being. The process of the particle existing in a superposition to a singular position can, according to the statistical estimate, come to a 50/50 chance.

The math is literally implying that the fundamental nature of the universe is up to chance, randomness. Einstein famously said that "God does not play dice with the universe" but everyone thought he was wrong. He was totally right though.

From the perspective of considering a physical and nonphysical universes/realms, I think it's very fair to say that quantum mechanics has simply reached the limit of physicality and obviously it's the nonphysical realm that is causing the collapse of the wave function, so to speak. But hey don't have to believe me. This shows the complete lack of understanding of what the hell quantum mechanics even is. Also this youtube video which I already posted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZacggH9wB7Y

>I don't think Science is at a point right now where it can reconcile occult phenomena. All this stuff falls outside the realm of objective causality. Yes, you can use logic and intuition to determine the validity occult principles, but that doesn't mean shit to a scientist. The technology just isn't there right now to objectively observe OBEs and other "paranormal" phenomena (it probably has existed in secret since the cold war, but that doesnt mean anything to us commoners). So, it's not that Science can't be used to backup our metaphysics, but that I don't think it has progressed enough right now to where it can.

Well first of all, no, you just need pure logic. You only need intuition to discover the logic. The process of validating these 'occult principles' is entirely objective. All true things are within the realm of 'objective causality'.the word causality itself refers to an axiom, I'm not sure if you can call it objective. This itself is another topic, regarding the philosophy side of things And I would disagree, today's scientists are under a dogma that has nothing to do with science and thus they are deluded into thinking there is only a physical reality. The thing is, you cannot have physical evidence of nonphysical phenomena. I haven't really thought about it, but the technology would be very simple and easy to verify. No progression is required. It's entirely an ideological problem. Pretty much everything is.

So since physicists don't like nonphysical stuff and are adamant that there is no 'hidden variable' one preposterous interpretation is the 'many worlds interpretation' where every possibility happens and the universe splits every time a superposition collapses. ie. when there is a 50/50 chance of an elementary particle ending up in one of two places (like the ones in your brain, remember that this is the fundamental nature of reality and happens to all elementary particles, light, electrons, quarks, etc) the universe duplicates or something and 'both happen' so in one universe Hitler actually won

>>99974

kill yourself attention whore

>>97889

>I have a birth certificate that is mine…but it belonged to an other human who disappeared. I took the place of that human. I took the name of that human. This is why I don't look like the guy and gal whose names are on, "my" birth certificate.

DAY OF THE ROPE NOW

>>98073

please do it

>>99975

>>99976

Meanwhile…I am happily daydreaming about my history.

Good times…GOOD TIMES!

>>99976

I was named Kyle Weathers a few hundred years earlier than now.

You stupid fuck face you said you were obsessed with physical reality so we talked about quantum physics

So you disregard it completely and post fucking selfies?!?!?!?!??! How fucking mentally underdeveloped do you have to do. fucking retard manchild end yourself

>>99944

It's full of shit. There's no field of probability, THAT is the lie. It's a field of forces, particles and such. That scientists don't have the answers to what all the forces at play are and thus have difficulty predicting the position/momentum of the particles is the truth.

They've over-complicated it. Whenever you change the scale of shit to this extreme you get forces that weren't relevant at the scale you're use to. Gravity only works when you have something the size of a moon. Other shit only works when you get to the atomic scale. If they need to discover a new force so be it, but it's not purely conceptual probability fields, it's a mess of forces like any other.

Math's great but it can only describe insofar we know where and what to look for and how to look for it.

I agree with you on everything but that singular point: We're not looking at it the right way. We're using math to reduce uncertainty by using what we know and can thus predict. Probability fields is merely a stand-in until we discover the force(s) or the behavior change in force(s) we are already aware of at this scale (sub-atomic, photon, quarks) in order to actually predict/know the momentum/position of particles reliably.

We can already figure out the momentum/position of particles though.. by weak detection methods, rather than strong. Blast the area with weak noise and find the particle's path that way.

https://phys.org/news/2014-06-compressive-approach-quantum.html

Fuck you. Superpositions is a mathematical construct. Purely human imagination, with no profound connection to this. Probability is an adaptation due to limited information, it's human perception and prediction not reality. It's basically a philosophical question, or, "Decision Theory".

>>99945

I heard Hitler escaped anyway to Argentina or something, via U-boat. They never recovered his body anyways.

The "Non-physical" is just physical shit we don't know about.

>>99984

>pseudoecientific bullshit

You never learn do you

>here's the spam I promised

>>If you don't want to argue then engage in the discussion of science or stop fucking talking to me. I'll be here ready to share my logic with anyone who responds

>And it seems you are too arrogantly ignorant to understand what engaging in discussion of science means in this context. So I'll spam this too

>>If you deny QM, then explain the wave pattern.

>>99985

Enjoy your ignorance

>>99988

>projecting

>>100023

>I was not the anon telling to you about quantum physics.

I never said you were fuckface

>>99561

>My obsession of the physical universe is because the physical universe is obvious to me by my senses. I see because of light at my eyes. I hear because of air at my ears.

but that is you, and if you give any fucks about the physical universe you would try to understand quantum mechanics

>>97889

>I have a birth certificate that is mine…but it belonged to an other human who disappeared. I took the place of that human. I took the name of that human. This is why I don't look like the guy and gal whose names are on, "my" birth certificate.

can someone report this fucker to ICE?

>>100113

Not true. Some symbols and their combinations are only good for so long. Our surface of Earth civilization is not the greatest tier. I am forcing my so-wordsman skill to hell. I understand how to talk to any at some time or an other. I thus understand the physical universe enough to force my eternal life. Maybe some day I learn a, "quantum mechanics" but that day is not this day.

I have my education.

11230

from 488

tried and true by 661

>>100114

please post pictures.

>>100167

Yeah you are pretty autistic. I used to be autistic, like why the fuck does anyone do anything then I smoked some weed and went ooohhh lol jk just that you need consistent social interaction. meet up with friends in a hobby. friends who actually do have social skills. My friend forced me out of it like why am I always quiet, why the long pauses when I respond slowly, like other people will get bored and not care what I am going to say anymore apparently lol

and after a while that oh hey I get why people do shit. I don't agree with it, but I get it. I also used to stutter a lot but that was just no confidence and no self esteem. weed can maybe help with that

>>100167

>please post pictures.

gay

>>100178

I'm pretty good.

I am not smoking weed and I will not smoke weed.

>>100179

I'm a .gov guy. Making government work interests me.

>>100208

You are a complete mother fucking retard

the whole point of that was that you don't have to smoke weed to be social

but you do have to be social

>>100275

haahahahahahhahah…I don't understand the importance of what you're trying to tell me.

I'm not a retard.

What is good about you calling me a, "mother fucking retard"?

NOTHING.

Mind your manners boi/gerl.

What is good about manners?

NOTHING.

Check your self

>>100483

?

I did. That is why I said mind your manners.

Manners are good for you. You do manners because you want to live. If you live then you live because you do since you are not the only one who is necessarily living just so you live.

>>100525

>Manners are good for you. You do manners because you want to live.

Wrong. Try again. Check your self

Manners are a necessary evil to allow things that can possibly be good, like communities and societies.

BREAK THE CONDITIONING

>>100541

I do not think I am wrong, and though I live a different kind of life than you.

Sometimes, instantly, I get regrowth of missing body at existing body. This is by technologies far away…and mostly I am a punching bag just so I do not kill more people than I do, but I am getting instant regrowth of missing body parts from time to time.

Do you understand my conditioning? I am probably not changing my mind excepting by wild, savage life.

I like manners. I like to be among other people. I like when I am not fighting good people.

>>100582

you are too autistic to communicate with

no amount of shit posting on the internet can fix that.

you need IRL friends.

and the truly good people don't need manners. manners are to make sure you don't offend anyone. good people never get offended if there is real respect

manners have nothing to do with respect fyi

you can try understanding these social constructs using logic. that's what I did, that's how I stopped being autistic. if it's a skill I am missing it, and had to artificially create it through logical understanding and then conditioning mechanisms in my subconscious through being completely conscious and aware of my words. after a long time my ego does the work for me

but I wasn't "born with this skill" to develop or however this mechanism is developed naturally for nonaustistic people and it seems neither were you. I was too logical minded to understand such subjective things at first

idk what you're problem is though, only you can figure that out.

one way or another though, you need to have conscious conversations in real life every day for a few years to stop being autistic

either that, or you are being a cheeky cunt by being ambiguous and mysterious on purpose. if you aren't autistic, surely you wouldn't expect anyone to understand what the hell this means

>Sometimes, instantly, I get regrowth of missing body at existing body. This is by technologies far away…and mostly I am a punching bag just so I do not kill more people than I do, but I am getting instant regrowth of missing body parts from time to time.

>I am probably not changing my mind excepting by wild, savage life.

da fuq

>>100583

You are too different from me to be understanding me.

I am lucky enough to know you have good advice…but that you still do not understand my opportunities. I am keeping my options open by being as I am.

Also some people know what I'm talking about. Humans already accessed eternal life technologies. One of these technologies is instant regrowth of missing body parts at the existing body.

>>100621

>Humans already accessed eternal life technologies

What kind of Humans?

Or rather what part of humanity?

>>100649

Ancient humans who set programs positioning humans, creatures, and things to force access to eternal life technologies.

Freeriders who are, or were, let in on the program of the ancient humans.

Humans who invented or reinvented eternal life technologies, and though their program is not as tried and true as the more ancient humans programs.

Humans today who are getting covenant or contract or mercy from humans who already access eternal life technologies.

Most humans living on the surface of Earth, today, are humans who are not getting the technologies…or are getting these technologies by covenant, contract, or mercy from humans already accessing eternal life technologies.