/fringe/ - Fringe

Our current state, whether human or animal or "deva", is one of dissolution and change. The goal is permanence.

>>90492

Permanent rebirths. Rebirth is only bad if you're a chump and come back as an animal or worse. If by permanence you mean an escape from the cycle of death and rebirth, that is the true dissolution.

The ultimate truth is the non-duality of samsara and nirvana.

Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home.

>>90493

That's one popular interpretation of Buddhism, but I'm interested in another one, whether it's "authentic" or not. Buddha is the master of both existence AND nonexistence. This is a state far superior to mere "dissolution". And frankly, I don't believe in that kind of fairy-tale reincarnation. When you die, the elements that compose you are dissolved into the flow of samsara and they eventually (each separately) attach themselves to different currents. At this point it makes no sense to say that "You" will continue to exist. When you die, you die.

>>90494

>The ultimate truth is the non-duality of samsara and nirvana.

Why say non-duality? Nirvana and Samsara are opposite things.

>>90500

He's just spouting asinine hippy platitudes.

>>90491

your motivation is corrupt enough to guarantee you wouldn't "live comfy style forever", and I find it hard to believe you can mantain it for longer than a few days right now.

>>90492

>>90501

The permanence you wish for is what >>90494 is alluding to. The non-duality of samsara and nirvana is the only permanent thing. But you seem to be only interested in power, which if true is sure to stop you from seeing reality.

>>90500

Exactly because of that they are non-dual. You might say true nirvana is nirvana which unites itself with samsara, so it is not nirvana, and that is why it is true.

>>90502

I have no experience of this "non-duality of samsara and nirvana". Anyone can use that expression and mean anything they like with it. I'm interested in DOING what any reasonable person would do when faced with the contingency of his own existence. I want freedom. The default state is one of slavery to circumstance, which is a rather self evident fact to anyone who cares to observe it.

>>90502

Did you know one of Ravel's questions ( 'Why did you want to learn magic?' ) in Planescape has three options with three bonuses of lesser and higher values.

You can say 'because I thought it might help me discover myself' for 1 + wisdom; 'because I thought it might be useful on my quest' for 1+ intelligence, or you can answer with 'power' for 1+ int and 1+ wisdom.

>>90503

so you understand why the buddha was fit and meditated. The idea of nirvana that runs around is one of detachment from reality, that is why I say nirvana and samsara are non-dual, because by virtue of being a person any understanding towards nirvana will ultimately manifest itself in samsara.

Now you seem much more reasonable to me than before.

>>90504

That's interesting.

>>90505

Thanks. Not trying to be unreasonable, I just think dislike platitudes like "the journey is the home" which can honestly mean whatever the hell you want it to, and the OP's fairy-tale version of reincarnation. Anyway, I'm not even a Buddhist.

>>90506

yeah, I understand what you mean, it's like anything can sound mystical if it's not specific enough. The non-dual thing is quite common in buddhist circles that go beyond the "spend your whole life looking at the wall" kind of buddhism.

Anyway sorry for the little misunderstanding, and good luck on your studies man.

yah so im not sure if you're supposed to destroy dialectical thinking or "be at peace" so to speak, with dialetical thinking in a buddhist mindset. it seems like the later could wind you up at nietzsche with an eternal becoming?

also couldn't help but notice the negative connotations with fire in buddhism. fire and its restlessness. seems like the west took another approach with fire, see persians and heraclitus… must read more…

supposedly reincarnation is a corruption of original buddhist/vedic teaching. don't fall for it.

"SUPPOSEDLY"

>>90509

"buy into muh jesus memes my dudes"

>>90509

yes "reincarnation" is the child's way of interpreting your selves in the multiverse

>holding pattern

sheit i havent heard that phrase since i watched elliot hulse vids in 2012

>>101123

>no post pdf

>>90491

No.

It was said that Gautama's teacher, attaining to a state of rebirth as a deva with a nearly innumerable lifespan, plummeted to the deepest hell after the duration of that lifespan.

>>90492

Dissolution is a temporary state along an insight cycle.

Nibbana is beyond myriad changing conditions. What dissolves is conditioned, and dissolution is a process proceeding from conditions, and all conditioned phenomena are impermanent.

>>90500

It's similar to how Hebrew characters stand for two opposite concepts at once.

It's like how 'fire' corresponds to 'temperature' regardless of whether it's 'hot' or 'cold.

The impetus to 'leave home' often begins with aversion and ends with a peaceful intimacy with all things. This is why one of the Buddha's epithets is 'leader of men to be tamed'.

>>90499

Surely you believe in 'incarnation', though, no?

What you're looking for sounds specific to the Zen sect. When I sit, I'm in a state that is 'both alive and dead'.

The dissolution you're describing doesn't always happen completely, due to the fetters, and this results in rebirth.

>>90492

Nibbana doesn't arise due to conditioned phenomena becoming permanent, because all such phenomena are subject to decay.

The trance of nibbana becomes possible due to insight arising from the observaton of impermanence, suffering, and egolessness as universal characteristics of all conditioned phenomena.

>>90499

>At this point it makes no sense to say that "You" will continue to exist. When you die, you die.

That's true, when you die you die. But when you will be reborn you will be reborn. Neither state is permanent. Death as a state of "dissolution" is not permanent, if it were then you would never be born in the first place.

Annihilationism is incorrect and Buddha argued against that false teaching.

>>90491

Precisely. Buddhism only ascribes nirvana to one who is suffering from his awareness of the wheel of samsara. As a matter of fact, the buddha himself did not enter nirvana uppon attaining enlightenment. Those who attain buddhahood and return to humanity are known as bodhisattvas, and act as guides for suffering souls to find peace.

>>90509

The popular conceptions of reincarnation and karma are tainted, but the terms have more profound meanings for the initiated. It works like the anthropomorphic mythological versions of pagan gods vs their psychological aspects in mystery religions.

lol thats like saying that the right way to play Sonic is to never leave the Green Hill Zone.

I mean you can do that if you want I guess, but I assure you'll get bored after few thousand years.

>>90509

karma and rebirth are central to right view

bump