/fringe/ - Fringe

>>80440

I am deficient in love for anything. I just lay down all day except to get up and shitpost a bit until I'm too depressed of that and go back to laying down. Can't even be bothered to eat or drink either until too much pain sets in. I'm really fucking depressed right now and can't function.

>>80440

>>80444

Let me paraphrase Philip K. Dick and say - "Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to become demonic."

In my experience, we become what we love.

>>80444

>>80440

All these holy fours have drawn me back to the thread. Don't be afraid; reality is but symbol. The Whore is but a symbol of your ego. Delving into the depths of the blackness is an important part of the process.

Its funny how synchronicity works. I've been doing this myself, and wondering if its the right thing to do or not. If everything is a part of God, then the Devil must also have a role to play, many actually.

And if God is (not only) love, then also loving the devil sounds like the right thing to do.

But is it wrong to keep a picture of the devil in your facebook page for example? While doing light work? Will it corrupt the meaning of the light work, or will it give it even deeper meanings and more insight?

I just want to make it clear to people that Im a righteous person, and Im a heart and I love, but sometimes things get interpreted the wrong way.

>>80482

Duality is one of the stuff whe need to overcome here in hearth.

But off course we are still living here in hearth , dont put the devil in your kikebook ,that would generate inconvinience for you , you may overcome duality, your friends not.

>>80792

Thanks, is good.

I am looking forward for the next one , the devil seems to be really important in my path .

Been fighting evil all my life, in all his forms ignorance, hate, now I know the devil is not the bad guy I started to love him , this is what Jesus mean when he said you got to love your enemies.

I enjoyed this as well as your David Bowie article but is it possible you are reading too much into Bowie?

If he meant those things then he definitely went up even more

>>84230

Oh, it is entirely possible, but what Bowie 'meant' is immaterial with respect to what was actually said. It is important to keep in mind Bowie was deeply inundated by occult topics and allegedly tried to summon the devil at one point, or some such, also showing a demonstrated interest in Kabbalah, Crowley and so forth. He was also incredibly high on cocaine, deprived of nutrition and thus in a pretty receptive state, spiritual, especially when considering his shifting ego. Now, all that considered–it is entirely possible he did not understand or intend the depths of what he wrote, but if one accepts the presence of a universal unconsience, a unifying field, God or Tao or whatever, then one eventually comes to accept that all work is truly created by this consciousness, which is, it appears, perpetually encoding and sending messages to wake itself up and work towards a higher goal; whether the person doing the encoding is conscious of the meaning is not so important as the meaning itself, but if they are conscious of the meaning their work and Self will be far more powerful. So essentially–yes it is possible I am reading too deeply into David, but no it is not possible that I am reading too deeply into God, for no one may even begin to probe the true depths of meaning yet; we may only grasp ever closer. Tomorrow's essay is about The Crying of Lot 49 by Thomas Pynchon, and I deal a little more with the concept of the intent of the creator having minimal impact on the meaning transmitted by the unconscious, so I will be sure to post it here so you can read it. Glad you have been enjoying the essays; were you the one reading the book on the Kindle Library?

>>84251

That was quite beautiful. I knew Bowie was an occultist based on his Thin White Duke stuff but hadn't heard this before. It's way more on the nose than anything I've heard from him before what with him actually namedropping Crowley and the Golden Dawn.

I think I'll start exploring his work in more depth from now on.

Crazy synchronicity with this. The other day I was heading to the beach with friends, and one shaman type I had just met that type. Pretty sure I talked to Lucifer through him. A boat had washed up on the shore at the beach and we watched the sunset. Tested my ego like crazy to see if I'd let it win over my awareness. Almost lost my life twice too. I can post the whole story later, Im gonna read your post first and then get back to this thread.

>>84232

No dont have Kindle

>>84253

yeah, i think he even said in an interview once that he himself always wondered why no one ever said anything about his occult stuff, sometimes he was really blatent about it, station to station is pretty much about the kabllhistc tree of life.

There is also that line "making sure white stays", really plays into the whole mystical neo nazi character.

The return of the Thin White Duke

Throwing darts in lovers' eyes

Here are we, one magical moment, such is the stuff

From where dreams are woven

Bending sound, dredging the ocean, lost in my circle

Here am I, flashing no color

Tall in this room overlooking the ocean

Here are we, one magical movement from Kether to Malkuth

There are you, you drive like a demon from station to station

The return of the Thin White Duke, throwing darts in lovers' eyes

The return of the Thin White Duke, throwing darts in lovers' eyes

The return of the Thin White Duke, making sure white stays

>>80309

I really like your work fam, keep writing.

>>86574

>ARRIVAL

Speaking of that, like two months ago I visualized myself as a language expert and in a situation where aliens have come to earth and I had to teach them our language. Fast forward to two weeks ago and my friend shows me the trailer for this movie that I haven't even heard of, and it blew my fuckin mind. It was like someone took my visual and made it into a movie, and even better than I imagined.

Very interesting experience, and the movie looks really good though I've yet to see it.

>>80309

I am without direction, and yet without me there could be no direction(of thyself). I too lie in wait (literally fasting and in bed much of the past 4 +months)for something that has already gone, and yet to come. Without sounding too blanda, I am distraught over the Trinity of the Woman and long for her to come full circle or back to me, to know the unknown. Ye I bring light but darkness has befallen me/her.

What can I do fringe? Speak to me.

>>88227

Thanks, keep writing!

Hey guys. Ran out of time to do an essay this week, so I've gone ahead and used it as an excuse to establish the podcast. Come listen as we discuss Shirley Jackson, That Poppy, Vaysha the Blind, and a few other topics not long enough to justify their own essays.

https://delilahmywoman.com/2017/03/03/announcing-podcast-episode-1/

bullshit occultists on the lose - the thread

>>93832

>lose

Thx 4 the loosh, m8.

This week I was also too busy with writing plays to do a proper essay, so here's another podcast, this one exploring The Island of Consciousness as it represents in The Red Turtle, Swiss Army Man and Shakespeare's The Tempest.

wait is the author a woman

>>77556

>>80309

you seem to have things sorted out. should i follow fringes guide to magic or do you have a better method? it all gets very confusing

>>96544

Sort of hard to say. I think the important think is coming to one's own individual path, rather than saying 'this' is the way or 'that' is the way. The first recognition you must come to is that all paths are valid but subject to misinterpretation, and some paths are less subject to misinterpretation. With this in mind, thinking of things in terms of 'chaos magic' is not a bad idea, but I prefer the term Quantum Magic because you are essentially using the right half of your brain to interpret the symbols of existing texts (religious practice) and/or the symbols you consciously create (magic). The two are not mutually exclusive and often linked, but the more one knows and understands about the spiritual experience, the more 'magical' it actually becomes, despite being capable of logical explanation.

The reason why I avoid answering questions like >>96395 directly is that all consciousness–at any rate, a theoretical, entirely 'pure' consciousness devoid of connection to a body and purely existing to be an observational light–is inherently masculine, since such an entity would need be pure and logical in order to be objective. The minute consciousness begins having a bodily experience in matter ('matter' having the same root as 'mother', 'matron', 'maternal', 'matrix', German 'mutter', etc.), it is having an experience which is to some degree feminine, because it is emotional, being that emotions are by and large products of internal chemistry of the body. This is not the only way to explain or interpret the inherent hermaphrodidity of the human experience, but it is the one which is the most 'streamlined' that I have found. One first must divide one's psyche from one's matter, and then within one's psyche divide one's consciousness from one's ego, and awaken that consciousness by logical appeals. I have written a novel which deals with the subject, THE LIGHTNING STENOGRAPHY DEVICE, and am currently trying to find an agent, but it is very esoteric and as a result, my genius, which has promised me an agent by year's end, has lead me to write two plays and begin another novel which I am hoping to finish over the next few months: this latter novel will most certainly merit an agent because of its appeals to certain demographics, but it is THE LIGHTNING STENOGRAPHY DEVICE which I am interested in publishing, because it is, I feel, spiritually significant to me and can be so to others. The Spirit Mercurius character describes it in context probably better than I can here, but the long and short of it is that the functions we think of as 'right brain' activities are a kind of connection to the unconscious, and can be manipulated by the symbols found in religion, art, even sports and commercials. In the Hannibal articles I go into projection a lot and what I mean by that is that this magical experience can be projected onto literally any symbol set which mankind could devise–I think in the Chaos Magic starter book I read the example used was The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

(1/Several)

>>96567

Magic is a decision, and the embrace of change. I think that reading a lot of guides about how to 'do magic' specifically will bog you down and confuse the issue, because you're not looking to 'do magic'. You're looking to BECOME A MAGICIAN. You're looking to LIVE A MAGICAL LIFE. You don't want to have one magical success and call it good, or to prove anything, and if you do, then you won't. You have to want wisdom, and have to want to be a magician for your own sake rather than for profit or for being 'right'. When you drop the idea of being right, you relax your eyes as though you're looking at a magic eye puzzle, and then, Ah, here we are, it's a perfect ray of light running through the center of everything. When you realize that free will simultaneously does and does not exist, and when you experience on an emotional level the paradoxical nature of being, that is when you know you have begun to hit something.

I do not know if I have it sorted out, but I have seen other people sorted out, and the Universe sorts itself out for anyone who is really willing to sit down, to take the time and listen to themselves and their imagination. You need to spend a lot of time with your imagination, and a lot of time reading. I have a particular booklist which I would recommend here and which grows depending on the direction in which one wishes to go, but essentially one's studies of the psyche and of the manipulation of magical symbols could take any form. You are giving yourself a skeleton key and centering yourself so that you, in the eye of the storm, are able to keep yourself from becoming emotionally invested in, say, religion or politics.

For my money, the clearest and most concise route to understanding and receiving that skeleton key is the works of Jung, and I would advise you skip right to his collected works:

9.1 The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious

9.2 Aion

14 Mysterium Coniunctionis (A++++ MUST READ for ALL Magicians but I also strongly recommend reading at least 9.1 first)

13 Alchemical Studies (Though it is lighter than MC, MC is what you need to read to 'break you open' to appreciate and internalize an emotional understanding of what is discussed in 13)

On Synchronicity

The Spirit and Evil in Fairy Tales (by his student, Marie-Louise von Franz)

The Dictionary of Symbols (published by Taschen, the price of a textbook and worth every penny for a Magician)

(2/Several)

>>96568

Although pure consciousness is masculine, an emotional understanding is important because there is a difference between knowing something intellectually and experiencing it physically or psychologically. For my money, Jung is the best for this. Bonus points if you take LSD at some point while exploring his work and think during your trip about the idea of consciousness as separate from ego.

Once you're centered and have a grasp of the symbol set, you can use it for anything: it depends on your personal style of magic. Like an artist, you have to pick a medium. So, what are you? A classical, sigil occultist? A writing magician, like me, or Alan Moore? A musician, maybe, like Amataresu-Anon floating around on this board? Maybe you want to do voodoo stuff, or bury jars full of ritual items in the middle of the desert like Mexican brujas. All of this is valid magic and all of this appeals to the same set of symbols to do work on a sub-conscious level. Some forms of magic are more public and/or powerful than others. Grant Morrison coined the term 'hypersigil', but back in my day those were just called 'artworks'.

I'll give you an example of a symbol that's been on my mind much recently after doing the Hannibal essays. Say you go through all of these Jung books, and the symbol of antlers and deer becomes significant to you. What can you do? Well, if you're

1. A Conventional Occultist makes an altar out of antlers, or uses them to encircle his sigil.

2. The Author Occultist encounters the symbol of a deer in a story and follows it or manipulates it to achieve a desired result in their own psyche.

3. The Savage Occultist projects negative internal energies or desires out into a deer and hunts it

4. The Serial Killer mounts human bodies on deer antlers

5. The Director Magician incorporates deer imagery into his film

6. The Musical Occultist creates a piece of music designed to evoke the spirit or vibrations of a deer

etc.

>>96569

The possibilities are truly limitless. It really comes down to an awareness of the functioning of your own brain and the incorporation of symbols into your life to help to inspire and access parts of yourself otherwise hidden. Examples are truly all around you. Paranoid schizophrenics who think everyone and everything is talking to them are right, they're just misinterpreting it.

Other works I would recommend are Shakespeare (especially The Tempest), Penguin's recent Writings From Ancient Egypt, and all versions of Faust with particular emphasis on Goethe and Marlowe. The more you read the more references you will uncover to other wealths of occult works to read, you need only pay attention to the synchronicities which will begin to surround you and direct your taste.

As far as homunculi/genii/tulpae, etc., those and all other visualizations of psychic and spiritual experiences can be useful tools as much as they can turn their users into useless toolbags. Remember that if you awaken the pure light of consciousness within yourself despite living alone in your room with a cheetoh-covered Hatsune Miku hug pillow, the pure light of consciousness might ride you right out of your fucking life and into a new one if it finds you've truly cornered yourself. That's not always a bad thing, but it's definitely not always a good thing, either, because what do you think is responsible for all your 'mistakes' and 'missteps' in life? The unconscious. Why do we most often stumble on the sidewalk? Because we became unconscious. On becoming conscious we owe it to ourselves and to consciousness to become the best version of ourselves possible, and consciousness is a lot less afraid of starting afresh than you are, so be careful.

You may also feel internally encouraged to do things which you never thought yourself capable of doing, or which may seem out of character: but you will also understand why you have to do them, and you will choose to do them. In the end, you have to ask yourself what it takes to get yourself where you want to be, and whether or not you want to make the decision to change, because it sounds annoying, but it's true: it's just a choice.

(4/4)

>>96567

well i was just surprised because i read a lot of your articles and they definitely read male

>>96619

I am heavily influenced by male authors, archetypes and social concerns, though I admit I am heavily influenced by all social issues, more or less. I also personally struggle to get into more stereotypically 'female' authors, the exceptions being Shirley Jackson and Japan's CLAMP team because they write over magic into their works. I also admit however that I have not read sufficiently from many female authors, but I feel towards female authors the way I do towards the greater part of most contemporary fiction. The emphasis is taken from the human concern and into some obscure social niche. The reason why the white, heterosexual male is the quote un quote social standard is that the white, heterosexual male is projectable, is an archetype inhabitable by all, and in and of itself is a symbol of the pursuit of masculine consciousness/light seeking to bond with feminine matter/existence. Because all conscious beings can understand this pursuit, in the end, it doesn't really matter that Camus' Meursault in THE STRANGER is a white man who shoots an arab when the sun gets in his eyes: it is a story in which race is incidental, a subtle and unconscious symbol of a conscious man confronting and integrating his shadow without realizing or understanding what has happened because he lacks the context and emotional experience to take him beyond his atheism and into psychological transhumanism. This is something with which most people can relate because Christianity and Western shame is so powerful in the human mind that even atheists feel their only choice is that God does and does not exist: seldom does it seem to occur to them that they themselves are the seed of God, not in a truly profound and internalized way. The Church of Satan, for instance, wants to get there but because they deny the ecstatic spiritual element and make theirs a wholly secular 'Church', they cannot widely provide their parishioners with the full and ecstatic experience of consciousness. Most human beings require both a logical and an emotional understanding of the thing to experience the phenomenon perceived as 'Satori': this is the reason why Zen masters use koans, this is the reason why working out the logical half of the problem under the influence of LSD will trigger an emotional understanding which will stay with you after the trip, if you experience the Clear Light truly. This is not a 'feel good for six months to a year' and then fade out sort of feeling: it is the foundation upon which your understanding will build a psychic temple to house the light of consciousness. However, if you approach the problem only from the external, logical standpoint of "God is external to me or He does not exist", then of course you're going to come to the conclusion of being an atheist, and that is why so many magicians who have made the jump into magic come from a background of early faith > skeptical atheism > magic > intense faith. Someone like Meursault can never be a magician because they have too many daddy issues they are unwilling to resolve (for all his lukewarm emphasis on his mother, whose death signifies a death of material meaning, Meursault's dealings with his father are all projected onto the social image of God the Father) and in fact when consciousness (sunlight) is shed on the issue, represented by Meursault, himself, the reaction is more or less immediate suicide, because of course the instant a murderer kills he has made the choice to kill himself. So you see? I do not even know why I picked THE STRANGER, I have not read Camus in at least five years, but yet I am able to recall these details and project very easily upon the white mail the struggle of consciousness: doing this sort of exercise both helps to keep the enlightened mind awake, and also helps ourselves and others to learn.

I have gone off on a tangent, and apologize. I am enthusiastic about the subject of magic and cannot talk freely about it in my real life, so when I get the chance on the Internet, I tend to ramble. I think being raised by a single father also contributed to a masculine writing style, and my literary and magical work has emphasized it.

>>96641

Yes, absolutely! I love that anecdote, and the similarity of Jung's position to the one R. D. Laing would later take. The idea that the mystic and the schizophrenic find themselves in the same ocean to varying degrees of success and terror is most fascinating, and even moreso when one considers the Stanford study indicating the voices experienced by schizophrenics can be positive, depending on their local culture. http://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/

>>96641

It is also worth noting that Jung and J.J. write about each other like they just fucking hated each other, especially Jung's long and scathing treatise on exactly all the reasons he hated Ulysses. Hilarious.

>>96627

You know why I fucking hated English? Because I was very good at it and knew it was complete bullshit. I could bullshit any fucking meaning out of any story to epic proportions, with incredibly thorough and believable reasoning to support it, but knew it was all complete fucking bullshit plucked out of the fucking air like the dumb fucking stories we read. The meaning of which are all completely invented. It's all invention but we approach the stories like they have DEPTH when fucking reality is DEPTH, not invented constructed stories of CATCHER IN THE RYE FUCKING QUALITY. LORD OF THE FLIES? GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK. Not an ounce of wit, cleverness, intelligence or original thought in any of the fucking books I've read. No fucking insight, nothing more advanced than a god damn bacteria colony. They're sugar for the brain. Television is high fructose corn syrup on sugar. I get more out of judging the quality of acting (in film and novels both) than the illusion created by their fucking piss narratives. Even "smart" or "sciency" books are fucking retarded. Isaac Asimov? Stale crackers (GET IT, OLD WHITE DUDE HHHHHEEEEHE). Frank Herbert? Butter sandwich (HE'S FAT). Infinite Jest and shit like that is on my list so I'll let you know if there's anything good in the literature world once I go through 99.9999999% trash.

The fucking narratives, the storytelling by religious, spiritual, theistic cunts is so fucking terrible it makes me dumber reading it. Don't feel too bad though because everyone's narratives are absolute shit, so you're not alone you God Cunt.

>>96903

>>96904

Too fucking long, didn't read.

You remind me of THE DEVIL. He goes by many names, but during these times, there is not a more approriate nickname than "Bullshit Occultist". 94 hate everyone, hate is the law, legalize gay levitation and marijuana plant and words are just random lines i could literally put anything here fuck it i feel so much more relaxed when i just type out random ass shit fuck the ego that fucking shit just holds you back why the fuck would i want to impress you wangsuckers i fucking hate you i just want to manipulate all of you so that i am master so why dont you just be my slave fucking bullshit occultist? Get lost. Get the fuck out of my fucking way you fucking homosexual faggot.

Has a woman ever created anything useful other than a man? What has a woman ever invented anything? These things seem like nothing but parasites to me. Every girl I know dominates men and use them like dolls. Seems like this entire world is just a big scam. Yeah, pussy and tits are nice, but you bitches are so disgusting that I have no desire to be near any of you. There are no female warriors. There are no female leaders. There are no females looking back at their evil manipulative actions and transmuting all the darkness they brought to the world into something positive. Seems like you bitches are just scheming fucks, and nothing else. I've met a bunch of cunts who without a second thought will slander a man they "don't like". They will call them a rapist, a psycho, stalker, violent, etc. They will turn everyone against them, then laugh. Then when that is done, and they do the same shit they were condemning, they cry and pull out their rotten pussies and "beg for forgiveness". Shit is fucking retarded. Women are just failed men. We are all the same person, but somewhere along the line half of us decided we were too lazy to do anything and grew pussies and tits. I can barely even feel empathy for half these cunts anymore. Society has given them a shield and they take fucking advantage of it. These demons aren't going to change either. The only thing that ever kept them in line was a good beating.

Now in russia you can legally hit your wife once a year. Muslims treat women like property. Bitches brought that on themselves. We could have had nice things, but you stupid cunts fucked it up because you have 0 foresight. Every time somebody has the solutions some bitch crushes them just to "be right". There are fucking milions lf magic words any cunt can use and banish any lonely autist/mgtow/altright/whatever. How the fuck are people satisfied with millions of people having 0 love prospects? If the roles were reversed and I saw thousands of women killing themselves from hopelessness I would cry with them. Grow some fucking hearts or you can have a shitty fucking timeline. You stupid bitches take everything for granted and its looking like the cunts of the world need a reality check.

We almost need world war 3, and women need to see the hell men had to go through for there to even be anything good in the world. 99.99999999999999% of the world would laugh me out of the room if I brought up war. "Hahahaha bruh wars over dude just drink some beer and watch the walking dead bruh. Take off the tin foil hat bruh.'

Thats a failed species to me. There is no reason for humans to continue existing. "Hahahahaha what dude" is a valid argument. Anytime you hear something you dont like or dont want to deal with until game of thrones is over you just have to say "hahaha what dude" and you won the argument.

Nuke this fucking planet Kim Jong Il.

>>96907

Are you a fucking idiot? GOD is a psyop. It's the real fucking "devil". Religious cunt. Hijacking fruity feel good shit then twisting the minds of its believers into a tortured half-retarded fucking mess.

What the fuck is gay levitation. I know what you're referencing because I'm familiar to the fucking psyop. It's magnetoelectric manipulation of humans. go Electromagnetic dude. Positive entropy. Gravity. Weed is shit, unless your constitution and mind are specifically compatible. Gay is bullshit faggotry. Which is what you're being mindraped you fucking twisted faggot.

You're MIND RAPED. The Devil/God dichotomy is stupid PSYOP shit.

Random brain shit is your discombobulated mind raped fucking self. Shedding the ego is consciously shutting out the fucking truth of your experience. You've been broken in like a fucking abducted child sex slave. PEDOPHILE SEX TRAFFICKERS ARE THE ONES PULLING THE RELIGIOUS GOD PSYOP YOU FUCKING FAGGOT.

>>96909

If men are getting psy oped then women are getting psy oped. Don't bother with trash and don't be a pussy push over dominated bitch of a man. Don't be a fucking victim with a victim mentality. Bitches get stitches. If you or anyone else had any measure of calculation, critical analysis and reason you'd keep 20,000 leagues between you and most fucking ANYONE since most everyone is polluted and corrupted by the evil shits on this planet who manipulate our culture, our food, our air, our water, our means of living, our everything.

Don't focus on fucking women focus on the actual fuckers doing this. Stop worrying about your victimized fucking selves and worry about who the fuck is orchestrating this shit.

>>96909

Women are the fucking children of the genders. They break to anyone.

SOMEONE'S GOTTA MAN THIS FUCKING SHIP. FUCK.

Might as well have a cam on you 24/7 so you have a 24/7 alibi. Live with fucking purpose and don't believe any of our culture's shit. You think it's okay to have erotica in fucking everything? Disgusting shit.

>>96913

I'll be honest I use ALCOHOL to shut down my psychic bull shit. Fucking third eye cunt shit. Can't fucking stand all the psychic energy directed towards me. Or just the fucking antenna that's stuck in the stream of all this bull shit. Fucking hate this. FUCKING PSYCHIC BULL SHIT ALL THESE PSYCHIC FUCKING VAMPIRES ALL THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL FUCKING WAR IS SUCH SHIT FUCK ALL THIS

>>96915

To be objective, hating women is probably a psy op in itself. Who the fuck knows what women are like in different circumstances, I don't fucking study women's history. I know that SOME sort of psy op was going on in history though, and who knows women might be the main target of history's enemies. So hating women is fucking retarded as well, not knowing the actual circumstances, which could be going either way in this.

>>96627

are you a qt

Oh, good, the shills and trolls have arrived to try to discredit and derail the thread by taking it off down bizarre and unrelated tangents. That means I'm on to something. I hope the shills in question are getting paid for their highly-transparent commentary because otherwise it's a waste of time. Also feel bad that these people are only capable of producing bullshit comments on imageboards because their lives are so sad and lacking in introspection.

Anyway, /fringe/, I was just dropping by to say hey because I'll be taking the month off to finish these two plays and work on a novel. Next essay will be near the end of May; I might have to post a new thread, looking at the state of this one and wondering if it won't be kicked off the board in a month of downtime, anyway. Take care, fellows, I'll be back soon.

>>96942

>Buddhist flag

>believes in the devil

Mara is nether bad or good, it serves its purpuse just as any other type of thought. Its ok if you want to brand it as something else but that wont apply to anyone else, for we live in a fully subjective existance here in this 3D plane.

thinking that we dont its the ilussion.

learn to 8th path fagget.

>>96961

Interesting that you say that, "Objective morality" when referring to the do-good god vs devil belief structure.

Wouldn't death by objective and thus the morality you proclaim as objective, but the god vs devil, there is no death fucks be subjective? As in, they hate dying so they reject its existence then claim to exist forever (though true in some sense perhaps) thus remaining a subjective entity with ambiguous undefinable objectivity?

I think you have that backwards:

Subjective morality is a spook.

>>96983

The devil is just the voice in the mind hidden inside ego. The voice will have the opinion that any harm done upon it is evil and bad thus it perceives enemies for such acts. Regardless if the ego of many join together to form a group/country so that they can circlejerk about a superior morality for the group and agree that anyone that fails to follow the laws of the group will be punished. Now you've only created another layer for the ego to manifest it's enemies in.

Another country will create similar laws but they will not identify as the original group. They make a law that states it is OK to kill the members of the other country and justifies it using the voice in the mind.

Subjective/objective morality is a spook. Those few individuals that are awakened will know in their heart that killing beings doesn't help so they will abstain out of unconditional love. Many see Jesus as some saint for being all-loving like the lord he serves, but once it states he pulled out a whip and flipped the tables of the merchants inside the temple. Not even Jesus could solve that non-violently.

Objective morality is only morality agreed upon by many, like accepted history is the history written by the victors of wars in the past, neglecting any alternative history of those that suffered for their country.

"Hah, your country's morality is shit, you allow killers to live."

"Hah, your country's morality is shit, you kill killers."

The sun shines, black holes suck, vacuum is nothing that is something. The sun will kill you like anyone else. Vacuum will kill you like anything else. Black holes will spaghetti your body like anything else. I don't hear people complaining about the sun being a mass murderer even though it dehydrates Africa for hundreds of years.

"Damn stars, being hot and radiating and stuff"

>>96961

>Objective morality is a spook.

NO U

objective morality is real and very easy to explain

I have no idea what is going on in this thread though

>>100371

Only conscious beings that can communicate, can suggest morality based on their own perspective. A gun can't be negotiated into not shooting you, it's mechanical. The sun can't be negotiated into not dehydrating you and killing you. If you can't communicate your morality to the second being involved, you can be killed regardless of your idea of objective morality. A lion will eat you because you are the right size for them to eat, not because of your ideas.

Subjective morality exists only for an individual that can communicate preference of voluntary decay. Objective morality cannot be proven to exist just as the existence of God currently cannot be proven to exist. If there's a scoreboard of your performance in life that you get to see after you die, it is unknown to us here. You could say that the scoreboard is the objective morality, since everyone get scored after dying. But then in that reality where you are scored on a scoreboard, what is morality there? How many layers of reality can you transcend, asking the question: what is objective morality, until you reach the higher all of everything and realize that you are everyone you meet and all actions done unto others are done unto yourself?

Does God hate assassins or love doctors more than assassins? Generally, most people don't what God is. It's just an idea in their mind that confirms to their subjective morality. The idea that God will punish those who are evil, especially after dying, is just justification for slandering of who the individual believes are evil.

If you wish to explain objective morality, you may.

>>100371

Nah, the Creator is all things, which means it cannot abhor any. We can still talk about ethics, but they are fluid and subjective.

>>100404

>>100405

You guys serious? There is selfishness and selflessness. There's you're objective mechanism for the subjective phenomena that is morality. Is perception of morality inherently subjective? Obviously. But can it be objective? Definitely, though if you want explanation it would be quite different depending on the context of a specific example

It's not objectively true that applying selflessness to one's life goals is 'good' but it's so blatantly rational that it's better than having selfish life goals.

I mean there are so many reasons why being selfless is logical but I've never heard of a reason to be selfish outside of the incredibly weak and borderline illogical argument of hedonism. It only makes sense from a position of ignorance

>>100417

If you can't explain it yourself then I sure as fuck ain't gonna read anything I already know of just because you told me to. If you want feel free to refer to concepts that a philosopher like those engaged in.

What I said has nothing to do with society or culture or norms, and thus has nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with objective universal notions of how to categorize intentions. It's objectively true that all intentions are either one of these two categories of morality.

And if you knew how to read you would see that I specifically referred to life goals. I'm not sure about the your use of the word "antisocial" maybe look it up before you use it so fallaciously again but if someone has selfish life goals then they are detrimental to society. I'd wager this to be an objective fact and I dare anyone to try and prove me wrong. I'd also wager that your next response will continue to have fallacies but I hope I'm wrong, that'd be too easy and boring

>>100419

I never said that your fallacious use of the word invalidates your argument; you're accusation of my argument having a fallacy fallacy is a strawman argument. I clearly explained my invalidation of your attempt at an argument.

Antisocial means not wanting to be social, ie having friends. Yet we are talking about helping society. Someone who does not want to help society can still have many friends and someone who does want to help society can still be entirely antisocial inventing stuff or making applications/protocols in their basement.

So yeah, you really should look up the actual definition of the word antisocial. Try oxford if you don't know where to start :)

And again you failed to read. I am talking about a person's life goals. Obviously a selfish person will cooperate with another to get maximum benefit but this is just a single act and even then the intention is selfish. I repeat for the third post in a row here, that I am talking about life goals.

Please learn to read before using the internet friendo

JESUS CHRIST THESE SHITLORDS ARE ONLY GETTING MORE FUCKTARDED

>>100421

I said morality is a subjective phenomena that has objective mechanisms.

I said this so many times since my first post. You are literally fucking retarded.

>the subjective phenomena that is morality. Is perception of morality inherently subjective? Obviously. But can it be objective? Definitely

Categorizing life goals is an objective process. How moronic can you be to not see what is in front of your stupid fucking face.

Being antisocial and having antisocial personality disorder are two different things. Fuck off until you learn English

Like I said try checking the Oxford instead of being a shitlord that won't shut the fuck up after being revealed to be wrong

>>100430

Holy fuck kill yourself

> I am talking about a person's life goals. Obviously a selfish person will cooperate with another to get maximum benefit but this is just a single act and even then the intention is selfish.

A single act that is itself selfless, but has selfish intention. It's babby's first philosophy lesson that an action cannot be objectively determined for it's ethics or morals in anyways. I've been talking about intentions and life goals this whole time. Don't came back here until you've read a fucking book

I've proven the objective nature of morality time and time again in my last two posts. If you don't know how to fucking read that's not my problem.

The more you make me repeat myself the more I will ridicule you fuckwits

Of course what's actually happening here is that both of you are experiencing the kind of cognitive dissonance and other illogical defense mechanisms that happens when your beliefs are challenged this is basic psychology. Delusion on the surface and disbelief under the hood.

"How can something be subjective and objective at the same time?" is what your subconscious is asking but this so far hasn't been consciously acknowledged in disbelief, since if it was you'd see I already answered that question too.

>>100421

Oh and both the definitions on Google support my use of antisocial as not wanting friends and incompatible with your notion of 'helping society' as the laws, customs, social instincts/practices have nothing to do with 'helping society'

>>100430

That picture is awfully autistic. Try watching this noob friendly video might help you stop being autistic

Sorry for shitting all over your thread OP or whoever. Can't really blame me for stupid people not being able to comprehend what I say though

>>100298

>>100498

>confirmed too retarded to comprehend anything

I don't even want to dignify you with a response ..but for all the lurkers.. thankfully I mostly just have to copy paste what I already said since you're too fucking retarded to read

>You're a self obsessed projecting babbling retard. Keep spewing incoherent word salad and convincing yourself you're better than everyone. You're the one getting extremely butthurt over people challenging your beliefs.

How are you even able to hold all that projection LOL oh right your complete incompetence in responding and greentexting reveals how incredibly unstable you are in your delusional arrogance and projections

>What if my life goals are to exploit you? What if my life goals are to rob as many people a possible? What if my life goals are to become a successful politician?

Those are mostly selfish goals then DUH

>There are plenty of logical reasons to be selfish. See above, if my goal is to amass power or resources, I should act selfishly.

You didn't give a reason for WHY thse goals are selfish. Exploring the why will show the complete lack of logic in these goals, except of course what I already explained. How moronic can you be that you couldn't even read the greetext qoutes you yourself posted

>>I've never heard of a reason to be selfish

>>the incredibly weak and borderline illogical argument of hedonism. It only makes sense from a position of ignorance

>The arbtirary concepts of selfish/selfless have everything to do with cultural norms.

No these are logically defined. Pick up a dictionary some time. Of course you can argue that definitions and the axioms of science are all "arbtirary concepts [that] have everything to do with cultural norms" but then you would just be laughably idiotic. Once again in you're own greentext you ignore this

>>everything to do with objective universal notions

If I am wrong then attempt to objectively invalidate what I say or provide a logical counterargument

>this claim is unfalsifiable. Your false dichotimy is anything but objective.

Then why are you arguing? If it is a false dichotomy, it is falsifiable. The whole point of logical philosophies is that they are unfalsifiable. Not all dichotomies are "false" for this reality would not exist without duality

>You're a christcuck telling an atheist to prove the abrahamic God doesn't exist. Your claim can't be tested.

Exactly. Atheists are retarded and they have no reason to live other than hedonism. This I can objectively prove and have. I argued with the entire /leftypol/ board once and in the end they had nothing to say after different angles of trying to refute what I said. You should go back there you heathen Also try not equating ALL people who aren't athiests into being a christcuck Everyone should at least be agnostic if they want to be objectively logical

And I was right, this was waay too easy and boring, Try again Good luck :")

>You didn't give a reason for WHY thse goals are selfish.

You didn't give a reason for WHY one should ever pursue these selfish goals*