/fringe/ - Fringe

The problem with Protestant Christianity is that it is the ultimate misunderstanding of the gospel of Christ, which is represented perfectly in the Jesus=/=Christ issue that the fundamentalists struggle with. This is because Protestantism is essentially the ultra-materialist/literalist version of the faith. These are people with no imagination, education or courage to delve into these topics at any level deeper than the symbolic; I am of the suspicion that an attempt to do so would actually harm them if they are too far gone, assuming it made any impact at all were all the symbolism explained to them. The impersonal Christ, the archetypal spirit of the self or the whole One, was reduced to the literal, personal Jesus, who, rather than being taken as a psycho-spiritual symbol, operates instead as a historical figure. Protestant thought as a whole is the reason why the Church kept Biblical knowledge filtered through priests as much as possible for as long as possible; all it takes is one fool teaching himself Latin and thinking that is all he needs to understand the word of God to orchestrate an entire movement based on a faulty premise. The fact of the matter, though, is that an entity like the Protestant movement has to exist if Gnostic thought is to exist; everything can be read as 100 percent symbolic or 100 percent literal, even a fairy tale, a phone book, or a Bible.

>>79662

I think they're out there, but just well hidden. I don't think its any one particular denomination though. I think you have to sort of find the group that questions things, usually conspiracy theorists and whatnot and they may have some info. It's probably not well developed I would imagine.

>>79662

Coming from a Protestant background, I'm inclined to agree with you.

They are not completely spiritually handicapped and can come with fresh outlooks and ideas like any other group, but will stop looking for answers after their preacher explains things for them.

The preacher, who is often very close-minded because he thinks he knows it all, is the weakest link in the Protestant chain.

Generally, Protestantism forbids the deeper levels of thought that are encouraged by the art and works of Catholicism

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Freemasonry is the esoteric incarnation of Protestantism.

>>79662

Protestants are excellent at haggling and quarreling so maybe you could start with that.

"Let us read the book ourselves!"

"No you gotta let us read the book, we wrote it." (rubs hands together)

>>80037

not really. That's Mormonism. Actually, I think Christianity is a mishmash, but no one wants to tell you that. There are a number of different traditions all laid out in there.

>>79662

>Is it just me, or is Protestant Christianity almost entirely devoid of all forms of mysticism or higher knowledge?

Most of protestantism outside of high church anglicanism and lutheranism focuses pretty explicitly on taking the mysticism out of christianity by even denying the "magical" aspects of the public mystery of the eucharist. So, yeah, most of mainstream protestantism is a desert as far as mystical shit goes.

>Are Protestants always going to be limited to a simplistic literalist interpretation of the Bible?

The problem with us isn't literalism (many protestants are moving towards either the "infallible but not inerrant" position, or else outright historical-critical hermeneutics), but the doctrine of sola fide, especially when taken to extremes, or when justification is focused on to the detriment of sanctification.

Basically, under sola fide, we're justified before god on account of our trust in the efficacy of christ's works and promises made to us. No work of ours can contribute directly to our justification.

When you teach justification to the detriment of sanctification (sanctification, to we prots, is the process by which god shapes you to be useful in your deeds), as is common in many protestant catechetical courses nowadays, you basically instill in the catechumen a notion of "what's the point in doing ___ since my works don't contribute to justification?"

So you end up with people who ask "why am I doing hesychasm all day since it doesn't buy me into heaven?" or other such selfish questions rather than "how does [whatever practice] make me more useful to god?"

As soon as you get past the "yay, I'm justified" part, though, and start focusing on your sanctification, it opens up worlds of opportunities to try things to make yourself useful before god. Sadly, most people never get here because they're worried about staying out of hell rather than being useful to god.

>Which denominations are more or less receptive to esoteric knowledge?

Lutheranism is having a fling with the orthodox concept of theosis on account of several finnish lutherans who want more ecumenical relations with the orthodox church of finland, and these concepts are trickling down into non-finnish lutheran churches as more and more support is being pulled from the writings of luther on the whole idea.

I wouldn't call that much, though, and really, no protestant (or really any christian) denom is going to accept super-esoteric shit, because in most cases, /fringe/ tier fruitbat esotericism borders excessively close to "witchcraft", which is sin.

>>80037

Not at all. Most protestant (and christian in general) denominations forbid their members from joining Masonic lodges, or any other sort of secret society.

>>81229

>Most protestant (and christian in general) denominations forbid their members from joining Masonic lodges

Not in America my lad.

>>81233

you know, being an American protestant, I should know. every church in my region prohibits belonging to lodges and secret societies in their constitutions.

>>81239

>you know, being an American protestant, I should know. every church in my region prohibits belonging to lodges and secret societies in their constitutions.

It probably varies state by state.

Nobody gives a fuck in Texas.

>>81243

possibly. where I'm at, most of the churches are historically foreign denominations (Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc) that descend from european state churches that had obvious reasons to hate Masons, or they're tinfoil tier end-of-the-world low prots who associate Masons with the antichrists nwo or whatever.

it could just be that Texans are actually of the devil. I mean, you are the lone star state. what star is that if not the devil's pentagram :^)

Spent a number of years in Wesleyan, Baptist, Methodist, and Seventh Day Aventist churches

Spent the last year studying occultism, orthodoxy, and hermeticism.

Modern Protestantism largely ignores the entire heavenly host and the past practices of the church's own clergy and canon in occultism and other theurgy. They prefer the idea that they can just text God whenever they want like a homie or roommate and don't have much interest in material other than the new testament.

Many or most protestants believe that eliminating ritual, iconography, idolatry (saints), etc. creates fewer obstacles between them and God, but they do this potentially at the expense of knowledge. The original idea was sound, leaving the corruption of the church behind, but that's just my 2 pence

>>79662

Protestantism being shit is just a symptom of a larger issue, which is how subvertable Christianity is. I won't talk about how watered down Christianity was from the start, questioning the ability of the apostles to correctly interpret what Jesus was trying to elaborate on, but you have to understand that Protestantism became a thing only because of how the Catholic church had become a visible den of thieves by the 1300s. The Reformation wasn't about interpretation of the bible, but rather German lords not wanting taxes going to the Vatican, or just about as materialist as you can get. Christianity had become a way of controlling the masses and extracting wealth rather than spiritual fulfillment. Protestantism and the other branches it led to was just moving away from the Latin literate Catholic priests to having the bible being interpreted by secular locals who then would give their share to their lords rather than the Catholic Church.

What about pentacostals? I went to a church like that for years. every summer we went to church camps as well that were even more strict on certain things. They were called Holiness Pentacostals, a more strict protestant denominatation. VERY legalistic. The pentacostals if i remember came from the same branch baptists broke off from. If you've seen pentacostals praising and worshipping in their church, some become "possessed" in a sense. they "speak in tongues". I basically broke off from them and have a pretty open mind about things. I still believe in a God, some of the stuff on here has me thinking about all this other stuff that people believe. But anyway my question is, isn't the pentacostals and holiness pentacostals still somewhat connected to mysticism in a sense? I guess some could fake it too I've personally seen and heard about that. Once when I was a younger and still going to the church, I was at home watching some kind of religious thing on Tv. They were saying something along the lines that pentacostals open themselves up to more than just the Holy Ghost. Once "possessed" they'd "speak in another language they didn't know, or ever learn. Can anybody shine some light on this?

>>84503

better to call athiests (and by extension protestants) what they really are: luciferians

I attend a baptist church, though I wouldn't exactly consider myself a Christian, a true Christian anyways. However, I've reached the same conclusion as OP, that pretty much every major protestant sect including Baptists don't have any kind of 'tradition' in the same sense that the Catholic or Orthodox church does, and that it's like >>79800 says in that each service is pretty much just the pastor giving you an educational lesson rather than participating in a holy mystic rite or tradition. It's pretty dry with nothing all that interesting (for me personally), which is essentially what drove me away from being devout a while ago.

It has been lately that I've been desiring again to delve into spiritual matters and I'm glad that I knew of this place (and also thanks to a few 4/pol/ posters too) for introducing me to true occultic and esoteric knowledge. I want to learn more about spiritual matters like our great ancestors knew and I figure reading the topics here is the best way to go about that.

>>79662

Literally what are the rosicrucians and the freemasons

>>79662

"The gates of heaven are lightly locked,

We do not guard our gain,

The heaviest hind may easily

Come silently and suddenly

Upon me in a lane.

"And any little maid that walks

In good thoughts apart,

May break the guard of the Three Kings

And see the dear and dreadful things

I hid within my heart.

"The meanest man in grey fields gone

Behind the set of sun,

Heareth between star and other star,

Through the door of the darkness fallen ajar,

The council, eldest of things that are,

The talk of the Three in One.

"The gates of heaven are lightly locked,

We do not guard our gold,

Men may uproot where worlds begin,

Or read the name of the nameless sin;

But if he fail or if he win

To no good man is told.

"The men of the East may spell the stars,

And times and triumphs mark,

But the men signed of the cross of Christ

Go gaily in the dark.

"The men of the East may search the scrolls

For sure fates and fame,

But the men that drink the blood of God

Go singing to their shame.

"The wise men know what wicked things

Are written on the sky,

They trim sad lamps, they touch sad strings,

Hearing the heavy purple wings,

Where the forgotten seraph kings

Still plot how God shall die.

"The wise men know all evil things

Under the twisted trees,

Where the perverse in pleasure pine

And men are weary of green wine

And sick of crimson seas.

"But you and all the kind of Christ

Are ignorant and brave,

And you have wars you hardly win

And souls you hardly save.

"I tell you naught for your comfort,

Yea, naught for your desire,

Save that the sky grows darker yet

And the sea rises higher.

"Night shall be thrice night over you,

And heaven an iron cope.

Do you have joy without a cause,

Yea, faith without a hope?"

>>87843

t. braindead autist

>>79662

Well look at the roots of Protestant Reformation

>The papacy and clergy were corrupt and not following it's own teachings on morals/usury

>Lesser lords in what is currently Germany were tired of seeing their wealth (gold) flow out of their country and into Rome

>Martin Luther comes along create the spark for the tinderbox by nailing his 95 theses to a wall

The Reformation occurred for purely material considerations, So I don't know why you seek any sort of mysticism in it.

>>87850

>Calvinism is inherently esoteric

Calvin engaged in iconoclasm and stripped all the churches of beauty. After he was in control he enforced strict behavioural codes. How can you search for higher knowledge if you kill imagination and art? How is it inherently esoteric? Unless by that you mean by that the only ones who get it are Calvin's "elect". In which case that's not knowledge but blind obedience.

Christianity is a retarded religion because like all Judaic religions it incorporates morality theory into the religion itself.

Which makes it bullshit.

>>87888

The simplistic black and white morality in exoteric religion exists entirely for maintaining order amongst the mundane masses. It serves a necessary purpose and isn't a bad thing at all in that sense.

Lots of Christians are closet atheists.

>bible speaks about magic

>average christian doesn't believe in magic

First, basically all Christians are totally blind to their own message. The churches in my area care only about making money and jerking themselves off every Sunday. They are the least mystical and most material people in the community generally.

Mormonism is esoteric as fuck but not considered christian by any of the other sects.

Pentecostals are open to a very narrow range of weird ideas.

I'm sure there are more than that but it's all I've experienced. Seems that none of the major protestant denoms apart from charismatics accept that there is anything mystical or miraculous that has occurred since the 1600's.

It absolutely is.

There's not even any rituals that go on in a protestant service (unless the domination has ties to Rome). You sit down, you hear the pastor tell you why fucking another man's ass is bad, and then you leave.

I'm actually a protestant pastor's kid, and I can't think of a time I ever enjoyed it. The yelling, the awkwardness, the uncomfortableness is something I remember since I was 5 or so.

It's even worse than orthodox sunni Islam because at least it has daily ritual. Sunni Islam comes at a close second though because it prohibits all things needed to be esoteric. Hell, you're not even allowed to close your eyes when you pray.

Orthodox Christianity and Sufi Islam are pretty great traditions and you can get deep into them.

Why bother with any of them though…just become a practitioner of Hermes.

>>87850

You probably aren't aware of what a lunatic Calvin was:

>It is therefore quite in keeping that Calvin constructed at Geneva probably the strictest theocratic society ever devised and treated with savage severity all those who held views opposed to his own. In this heaven, not only were fornication and adultery proscribed but even the mildest forms of spontaneity. The Registers reveal that bridesmaids were arrested for decorating a bride too gaily. People were punished for dancing, spending time in taverns, eating fish on Good Friday, having their fortunes told, objecting when the priest christened their child by a different name from the one they had chosen, arranging a marriage between persons of disparate ages, singing songs against Calvin, and much besides. (123) Pierre Ami, one of those responsible for bringing Calvin to Geneva, was imprisoned for dancing with his wife at a betrothal; his wife later had to flee the country.

>Attendance at church on Sundays and on Wednesdays was compulsory, and the police went through streets, shops and homes to see if anyone was evading his duty. On the other hand, it was a punishable offence to go to church except at the hour of service. Grant observes:

>"…. the dress of citizens, male and female, the mode of dressing the hair, the dishes served on ordinary days and on festivals, the jokes in the streets, the character of private entertainments — all were enquired into, and what seemed wrong was censured and punished."

>Such was the Genevan Utopia, which the admiring Knox called

>"the most perfect school of Christ that ever was on earth since the days of the Apostles".

>To impose such standards, Calvin had to resort, naturally, to wholesale violence, torture and execution: 150 of those who disagreed were committed to the flames in sixty years. Not for nothing had he been called by his schoolmates "The Accusative".

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/shop/taylorgr/sxnhst/chap8.htm

>>>/cucktianity/182

>>89563

>>87850

Not a Calvinist nor a Christian, but I think Calvinism answers some of the fundamental problems with Christianity.

Christianity has always been black and white "he who is not with me is against me", "no one can come to my father except through me", "he who loves his family more than me is not worthy of me", etc.

Though I appreciate Orthodox and Catholic mysticism and traditions, Jesus spoke in a very black and white manner. Whoever does not follow Jesus will end up in Hell, no if ands or buts.

Then comes the moral question, "what about X people who never had the chance to learn about Christ?" Many Christians will say "well…they'll be judged accordingly and in fairness". But the truth according to the Bible is: tough shit! It states very clearly what has to happen to go to Heaven and Calvin saw this.

I followed a Catholic podcast called Catholic Answers for a number of years and they loathed Calvinist call ins and debates because to put it in their words "they're scripturally correct" and the Catholics had to respond with oral / passed down tradition.

To say Calvinism is inherently esoteric like the other guy though is pretty laughable

>>79662

Spent a few decades as a cuckstian and got absolutely zero spiritual benefit from it. God never spoke to me, my prayers were never answered and solace was never granted.

But a few months of reading through the shitposts on a board created by the cataclysmic trainwreck that is smiley and I turn my life around with magick.

Christianity is a black hole that annihilates the spirit of man. It hamstrings you in both the physical and spiritual world.

whenever a religion gains political power the legalistic side of it will always strangle the mystical side. (yang n yin) look at literally any religion (except maybe tibetan buddhism, but they didnt have huge political power except over their own nation, were pretty much everyone believed the same anyway)

>>88340

I'm fairly certain that's to stop people from being encouraged to fuck about with magic

bowden had a fun take on protestantism in its extremest forms where if you follow the idea of calvinistic predestination you wind up with essentially a divinely selected elite class of people really. this sounds artitocratic as fuck does it not?

further the man, a gun, and a bible frontier mindset is quite protestant in nature.

>>92559

>>>/rel/1252

>>>/rel/594

https://archive.org/details/your_invisible_power_2104_librivox/yourinvisiblepower_17_behrend.mp3

>>89550

>Why bother with any of them though…just become a practitioner of Hermes.

lol, right, practice a dead religion with no spiritual infrastructure and very few support networks. i agreed with most of what you said, but it's very difficult to achieve henosis without an existing infrastructure as your guide. of course, all things are possible with god.

Some of them know. And are either enslavers or themselves thoroughly enslaved.

Protestant occultists are INCREDIBLY nasty people, and some of them have even convinced themselves that they're the good guy, making them twice as dangerous.

Isn't Skull & Bones a protestant org?

>>93828

>Protestant occultists are

all bullshit occultists

>>93732

is that stephen fry?

>>93828

Functional hypocrites. Incoiled by Apep with no understanding of how and why…