/fringe/ - Fringe

An Alternative: Transjective REality

So rejecting the Lucifer experiment as most likely a form of death, alongside the rejection of dissolution into the material and absorption into the transcendental, what other options are there to live? First the idea of a “final solution” or a final state to the mind and reality must be rejected. All final solutions will result, or appear to result, in the destruction of the individual entity. The mental entity that wishes to thrive in immortality instead must accept the existence of other mental entities, and create its reality alongside others in a transjective reality where what is true is shared between a group of entities. Of course, the entities do not need to share every aspect of the transjective reality; a limited set of beliefs and perceptions is sufficient. Consider language; to communicate in the transjective reality of Spanish, it is not necessary to know every word in Spanish; only a few will suffice to find the bathroom. More complex interactions require a deeper shared knowledge.

Transjective Nature of Human Life

For humans, simply choosing to be human is enough to relate with billions of other people. While no humans all share any particular trait, almost all traits are shared with at least one human, and many traits are shared with most humans, and most traits are shared with large numbers of others. Thus room is created for a large variety of systems. That said, limitations are imposed by belief, especially widely shared beliefs in the transcendental or the material. Today, the majority of the world population is absorbed in some materialistic, religions, or political philosophy that attempts to push its values onto others.

The Danger of Scientism

To pick on a single object, Scienctism, the belief in the primacy of Science, forces communities that reject scientific analysis as incomplete or invalid into underground and closed communities. Since any act of using a system other than Science, such as Hermetic Magic, would invalidate the belief of the mass followers of Scientism, these actions cannot occur in an environment that would invalidate the mass belief. Thus, successful magic can only be displayed when it can be done in a way where its success can be attributed to luck, sleight of hand, or most humorously, Science. However, an exception can be made in communities or by individuals that are mostly disconnected from the rest of society in a weaker version of the Lucifer experiment. Individuals who wish to survive, but not accept the restrictions of the majority, can choose to limit their interactions and achieve greater spiritual freedom. Some monasteries are the perfect example of a transjective, partial Lucifer Experiment.

>>100630

>the mind that does not create ceases to exist

stopped reading there.

I kept going anyways

>subscribing to any belief

>purposefully limiting yourself

>constant overwriting and juggling of different beliefs

>believing isolated Luciferian godhood somehow impossible without literal isolation

>quackery regarding existence somehow reliant on a 'conscious observer'

>"consciousness is defined by its interactions with other conscious entities"

>"a transjective reality where what is true is shared between a group of entities" lol jk "a limited set of beliefs and perceptions is sufficient"

>humans have emotions most of them are similar durr you don't need to know anything else

>sheeple are brainwashed. not all but mostly, but it doesn't matter who just assume they all are durr don't need to know how to figure who is who

>magick contradicts science derp

I have never seen so much disinformation condensed into such concise professional looking fuckery. Well done!

you've completely misunderstood the Lucifer attributes. maybe I'll explain later

right now I need to cleanse my brain of the stupid I just read

>>100636

Maybe I could have written things more clearly. I'll try to address your points;

>the mind that does not create ceases to exist

Existence is a process of mind moving from one state to another state. In order to do so, the mind has to create (or perceive, same thing) the next state.

>subscribing to any belief

Belief is required to communicate. Perfect example; belief in technology behind this imageboard. If you didn't believe it worked, you wouldn't use it.

>purposefully limiting yourself

That is a point I am trying to communicate; that continued existence as an individual requires self limitation.

>juggling of different beliefs

I'm proposing that juggling beliefs is a way to reduce self limitation while still accepting the limitations needed for existence.

>believing isolated Luciferian godhood somehow impossible without literal isolation

There are other definitions of Luciferian godhood which is why I am careful to define exactly what I am talking about. In order to have full control over your reality, no other entities must have control over it. This includes the most mild form of unintentional control, so any information transfer precludes Luciferian godhood as defined here. Thus no other entities can be aware of the god, or the god aware of any other entities excluding entities that exist within the god.

>transjective reality where what is true is shared between a group of entities VS a limited set of beliefs is sufficient

There is no contradiction. A transjective reality requires a set of shared beliefs; but the entities can participate in multiple simultaneous transjective realities by only operating in the space shared with another particular entity. That's why I give the example of Spanish. You can know other languages than Spanish, but if you know Spanish, then you can operate within that space with other entities who also understand Spanish. Same goes for more complex systems.

>Humans have emotions most of them are similar

Humans are a shared species. Of course if you only relate to other humans as a member of a species, that is very limited. More specific and meaningful are relationships based around race, ideology, belief systems, and so forth.

>humans are brainwashed

I don't know where you get that. Subscribing to a particular system could be the result of brainwashing or not. If you're referring to Scientism, individuals can participate in Scientism in order to operate with other individuals who share that system without being brainwashed or rejecting alternative systems.

>magick contradicts science

No, magic does not contradict science. Scientism is not science; it is the belief in the primacy of Science.

Honestly I think we are in agreement on about half of your points but it seems my writing was confusing.

>>100630

The interesting part of this conversation is complete individualism (relatively) vs complete dissolution (relatively) and the necessity of exerting individuality in order to remain independent of the collective folly and achieve superiority.

Would you agree that this is the interesting part of this topic?

>>100642

>complete individualism vs complete dissolution

Yes, that is the core. However from the perspective of the immortal magician it is not only individuality that needs to be exerted, but also dissolution. Too much individuality leads to a separated godhood, a form of death, and too much dissolution leads to nirvana, yet another form of death.

So on the one side is collective folly, and on the other side is complete separation. Both states are not conducive to magic. In dissolution, the ability to perform magic is delegated to a higher entity; in separation, their is no "other" to operate magic upon.

yes isolation does increase power exponentially. total isolation isn't required though

intuitive understanding of quantum mechanics and relativity can help in spelling out the nuances of this phenomena. QM for understanding the etheric influence on reality, and relativity for how isolating and cultivating this influence

>>100638

responding to all of this requires essays

>the mind has to create (or perceive

no. god created 'existence' through word

it allows things like ego perception etc to occur

when we manifested in our current incarnation, the mechanisms producing perception are already there.

in other words, the subconscious/ego inputs perception to consciousness. consciousness itself, what we essentially are, only outputs decisions.

what we 'create' is filters in our perception, and our attention to this limited perception outputs energy through the ego conduit to the body.

>Honestly I think we are in agreement on about half of your points but it seems my writing was confusing.

I was just saying. to anyone who doesn't already know what you were talking about, it will entirely lead them astray in one way or another

but to those who know, let's get to the point. as I was saying.

of course consciousness is god and has the capacity to 'word' into 'perception' is there

but of course as you say, the greatest impediment is that

>limitations are imposed by belief, especially widely shared beliefs in the transcendental or the material.

>Today, the majority of the world population is absorbed in some materialistic, religions, or political philosophy that attempts to push its values onto others.

however what you omitted is that there is a further absolute limitation on us. there is a hard lock, that was locked in place as the condition for incarnating into this realm.

one cannot just unlock it. but this can happen with the most successful all-encompassing completion of the lucifer experiment. not possible or reality would break for everyone, and the contingency plan within everyone else's lock would activate. would be pretty lame.

of course this is practically the same thing in the astral realm. if you want you can call it the luciferian environment but that word has completely different connotations that actually mean something else when applied in the astral sense. well I can go on and on here

also, as you were implying, you can create a 'closed' system in a sort of temporal stasis field. one way to get started on that is a faraday cage.

I don't know what would happen but I'd imagine you'd just entire your own isolated realm, or a random isolated place in the astral, with your body intact. actually that doesn't make any sense. dunno

there have been cases with people simply vanishing. there have also been cases of people spontaneously combusting. who knows…

but anyways I don't see the point in all this. just learn to lucid dream and slowly progress there to complete and total control of reality which then can be carried over into skills for the astral which you can refine further and achieve god hood after detaching from earthly coils. but ya gotta leave physicality alone. people inside their own 'lucifer' boxes in isolated head space realities. this is an experiment for learning! do not interrupt, but you can communicate with people, as you always could.

>>100660

>So on the one side is collective folly, and on the other side is complete separation. Both states are not conducive to magic. In dissolution, the ability to perform magic is delegated to a higher entity; in separation, their is no "other" to operate magic upon.

however these do refer to the two end states of reality, the end of the experiment.

either everyone becomes STO and harmonizes together to assimilate into absolute eternal godhood

or a STS being in it's hunt to consume and devour everything, will attain complete dominance of all, assimilating the all to STS being

the end result, the destination, is actually the exact same, total assimilation. rapture to the eternal source, unification with cosmic consciousness, etc

that's why the point is the journey though, not the destination.

and anyways, if all you are after is the 'feeling' the actual tangible experience. well what is real is subjective and so you can emulate the feeling in a virtual reality in lucid dream or something. there is absolutely no difference

engaging in this experiment produces the coolest storylines though, you can't really get that in dreams. well you can. eh.

but not to mention in this experiment is the elements out of your control, and it's because of these elements that rapid learning development can occur

this development is the tempering of the ego so that one can enter the astral and not be retarded. from there you get less and less retarded as you go higher and higher unlocking the hard locks of limitation one by one. this is the most substantive and meaningful journey, allowing the greatest and longest possible experience of tangible meaning. just enjoy the ride man, I don't get people wanting shortcuts. you can make your own experiments in the given access to lucid dreaming, you are only a client on this server, stop trying to hack into the console. you have your own server that you enter every night with complete access to that console

>>100750

STS is best path, STO faggots can go fuck themselves with their "All"

>>100801

why is that?

>>100630

Suppose someone conducted the Lucifer Experiment, but wanted to come back. Obviously the experiment requires complete seperation from everything, including memory, however, if some kind of timer were left behind and still effected the conductor of the experiment, without their knowledge, could they possibly bring in an entirely new existance completely dissimilar to the current one? What repercussions would follow?, or would this foreign universe go completely undetected, as there would be no point of reference to witness it from.

How does one actually go about conducting this experiment?

>>100630

Hello,

To clarify, I'm still not very tuned into the whole magic thing, but I have always had an idea of the "universe" that seems to be quite similar to this one. Maybe you could give me an opinion on whether or not it seems to be the same as the Lucifer Experiment?

So, for most of my life, I've believed that our material brain is all there is to us; conscience is a byproduct of this brain functioning, and nothing else. The other thing I've always believed in is that the way this brain is built allows us to use it to completely create a new universe. If we then consider that this universe is nothing but the interaction of energy with this brain of ours, that would mean that our brain has become so advanced it can change the universe subjectively.

Let me tell you right now that lately, I've been very torn about this whole view of the universe; yes, it makes sense to me, but so do many weird things make sense in dreams. Regardless, the concept I'm trying to put forth transcends this concern, making it irrelevant, though I'll still present it from this point of view, just because it's a familiar point of reference to me, and one that, I think, everyone can understand.

In this view of mine, one can "collapse inward", meaning they'd become masters of the senses, in a way that they could experience all of them internally, without interaction with the outer universe. From them, one could close their eyes and meditate a new self into being, as well as a universe for that self to be in, the conscience above all this effectively becoming "The Law"; that which has no beginning or end, which is absolute, which has no cause, which is. If one were to slip onto that state permanently, there would be a complete separation from the "exterior" world, as even if the source of the existence physically died, what would happen to the world willed into being would be equivalent to what happens to every world we dream of every night: it would effectively cease existing (if we're looking at it from a purely materialistic standpoint).

That's it, really. At the moment, I'm changing my mind about a great deal of things, especially regarding this "materialistic standpoint", but this has always struck me as such an elegant way of viewing things, and, to an extent, so impervious to law (the only limitations being what we can observe), that it just seems true, you know?

So what do you think?

>>101800

Sounds like you are on the right path. Keep up the good work, have faith that you will understand the Truth, and never stop questioning yourself and those around you.